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Rubber Duck
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2006
Posts: 806
Location: Pitt Meadows BC
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 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:31 pm Post subject: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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This year has been bad...I only managed to get the bus out into the sunshine just once and that too, just for a drive, not even camping. Life's changed and I'm real busy these days.
Anyway, I thought I should start her up just because. And well, something that hasn't happened before happened...turned the key, and nothing. Hmmm. Dead battery. Yes, it was dead.
New battery, what the....the oil and battery light would go dim, then go out. No sounds. Hmmm...must be bad grounds. Cleaned up the grounds, removed terminals, shined everything up, tried again.
Well, this time....LOUD click. OK, that was helpful. But nothing. No cranking.
Get under again...this time, do the jumper trick. Well, touching the two large nuts got a loud click and nothing else. Touch the small one to the big one and just got sparks.
I had an idea...maybe stuff has just hardened up from lack of use. Whipped out the heat gun and ran it all over the solenoid and starter. Did it for about 5 minutes on high heat. Touched the terminals and this time, I heard a whirrr!!! Got out and turned the key and she started in just a few cranks.
So...what should I do folks? Should I finally do the hot start relay workaround? Will it help? Or should I just take out the starter (not sure how to do it) and clean it up inside? Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks.
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Rubber Duck
1974 Westfalia |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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| If the starter didn't spin freely when you jumped the two large lugs power isn't passing through the wires for some reason. As a guess I am going to say your starter brushes are either worn to their limit or froze up in their holders. If you have a mom and pops auto electric shop close by they may be able to just change out your brushes and lube your bearings and hand it back to you, but you may also need to buy a new/rebuilt starter. |
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wihr
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 344
Location: PORTLAND, OR
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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Clean the transmission ground!
WW
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WIHR
1970 Campmobile "Van Ordinaire"
2009 Lincoln Town Car "Behemoth"
1969 Lambretta 150 DL "Nina"
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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It’s time for the cut and paste:But before you do that, remove your ground strap from the battery, then disconnect it where it bolts to the body. That bolt may be rusty and may break when you remove it. At any rate, take some fine sandpaper and shine up the side of the ground strap that touches the body and shine up the steel of the body where the ground strap contacts it. Now, before you put the ground strap back on, disconnect and clean up your positive connection to the battery both on the battery end and the starter end. Reconnect the positive, then reconnect the ground. In other words, you are cleaning BOTH ends of BOTH cables. If that doesn’t help it to start better, now disconnect and clean up both ends of the transmission ground strap. Let us know how things work out. Best of luck! 
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Rubber Duck
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2006
Posts: 806
Location: Pitt Meadows BC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| If the starter didn't spin freely when you jumped the two large lugs power isn't passing through the wires for some reason. As a guess I am going to say your starter brushes are either worn to their limit or froze up in their holders. If you have a mom and pops auto electric shop close by they may be able to just change out your brushes and lube your bearings and hand it back to you, but you may also need to buy a new/rebuilt starter. |
There are alternator shops that do starters I believe. I'll call around. I have replaced alternator brushes on my old Merc (1984) back in the day...I'm guessing it should be about the same with the VW starter? My worry is the actual removal of the starter. Haven't done that one before.
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Rubber Duck
1974 Westfalia |
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Rubber Duck
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2006
Posts: 806
Location: Pitt Meadows BC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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| TomWesty wrote: |
| It’s time for the cut and paste:But before you do that, remove your ground strap from the battery, then disconnect it where it bolts to the body. That bolt may be rusty and may break when you remove it. At any rate, take some fine sandpaper and shine up the side of the ground strap that touches the body and shine up the steel of the body where the ground strap contacts it. Now, before you put the ground strap back on, disconnect and clean up your positive connection to the battery both on the battery end and the starter end. Reconnect the positive, then reconnect the ground. In other words, you are cleaning BOTH ends of BOTH cables. If that doesn’t help it to start better, now disconnect and clean up both ends of the transmission ground strap. Let us know how things work out. Best of luck! |
Thanks TomWesty. I had tried all that, but it didn't work, hence the heat gun. But you know what...I really should probably change all those cables anyway. They are kinda old (I'm guessing 44 years old lol!) I've always made my own cables for my other vehicles from welding cable, and the braided one on the transmission to body does look like its original. I think that's what I'm going to do.
I have to say though, that once i got it heated up, it started up really easily.
| wihr wrote: |
Clean the transmission ground!
WW |
Yep. Did that first thing. I think I will buy new braided ground wire to replace it. Thanks for the thought though!
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Rubber Duck
1974 Westfalia |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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| Rubber Duck wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| If the starter didn't spin freely when you jumped the two large lugs power isn't passing through the wires for some reason. As a guess I am going to say your starter brushes are either worn to their limit or froze up in their holders. If you have a mom and pops auto electric shop close by they may be able to just change out your brushes and lube your bearings and hand it back to you, but you may also need to buy a new/rebuilt starter. |
There are alternator shops that do starters I believe. I'll call around. I have replaced alternator brushes on my old Merc (1984) back in the day...I'm guessing it should be about the same with the VW starter? My worry is the actual removal of the starter. Haven't done that one before. |
The removal of the starter is not big deal. A bit hard to access the one nut, but everything else is pretty easy. You must remove the ground cable from the battery before you start work. |
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:56 am Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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That is what I would do also.
Remove the starter and take it to the local alternator rebuilder guy and have it all cleaned up and made to work correctly.
While they are doing that take in the battery cables into them and have him build you some nice new ones using bigger meat "welding wire" with heat shrink connections. He can build you nice new ground straps at the same time. |
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:35 am Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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Hmm, I like the heat gun trick. That is new to me, still learning!
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Rubber Duck
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2006
Posts: 806
Location: Pitt Meadows BC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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| Randy in Maine wrote: |
That is what I would do also.
Remove the starter and take it to the local alternator rebuilder guy and have it all cleaned up and made to work correctly.
While they are doing that take in the battery cables into them and have him build you some nice new ones using bigger meat "welding wire" with heat shrink connections. He can build you nice new ground straps at the same time. |
Hmmm...didn't know they did that too! I'll have to ask for sure!
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Rubber Duck
1974 Westfalia |
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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| Rubber Duck wrote: |
| Randy in Maine wrote: |
That is what I would do also.
Remove the starter and take it to the local alternator rebuilder guy and have it all cleaned up and made to work correctly.
While they are doing that take in the battery cables into them and have him build you some nice new ones using bigger meat "welding wire" with heat shrink connections. He can build you nice new ground straps at the same time. |
Hmmm...didn't know they did that too! I'll have to ask for sure! |
Check these guys out for battery cables...
https://www.batterycablesusa.com/ |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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| Our local NAPA will take one of their cables, shorten it to the length you need dab it with anti corrosive grease, crimp on the end you desire, and seal the joint with heat shrink, all for the price of the cable and cable end. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:15 am Post subject: Re: When it takes a heat gun to start the bus up... |
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Rather than adding a hot start relay with lots of new wires to maintain and fail....
Run a new wire from starter terminal to the ignition switch. New ignition switches are junk so either carry a spare or wire in a starter button separate from the ignition switch.
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