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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:10 am Post subject: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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For starters, not sure I have the correct switch for a Late Bay. From what I've read it should be 211 941 531E and not the currently installed 211 941 531B.
I'm also getting some inconsistent results when I pull the headlight switch (ignition on). First pull turns on the parking lights, side marker lights as expected. Second pull only sometimes turns on the headlights. I can wiggle the switch a little to get the headlights to turn on, but it's not consistent and obviously not correct. All connections seem okay and the terminals are clean.
I've emailed Ken at TheBusco to check his stock availability, but want to make sure 211 941 531E is the correct switch. If so, what are the extra terminals on the E switch compared to the B switch for? As far as I can tell the 1979 wiring diagram only shows 6 connections - X, 30(x2), 56, 58, 58b, so what's the purpose of the 58L and 58R on the 211 941 531E switch?
Thanks as always for any help! _________________ 1979 Microbus |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51128 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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stevespeirs wrote: |
what are the extra terminals on the E switch compared to the B switch for? |
From what I've determined they are for a parking light system not offered in North America, there's some new signal and ignition switches sporting bonus wires that I think are for it being sold as well. I have never found a diagram for it but it seems you can turn off all the side lights on one side by leaving it parked with the signal switch in the turn position, some countries require a single light left on when parked on a narrow street apparently.
You can likely leave them disconnected for your purposes.
Have you tried opening up your switch and cleaning/greasing it? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Have you tried opening up your switch and cleaning/greasing it? |
I'll try that. Wasn't sure if it was okay to pop open the switch. Thanks, busdaddy! _________________ 1979 Microbus |
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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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Update - there was a tiny piece of cracked bakelite floating around inside the switch which I removed. Reconnected the terminals and the light switch now works correctly on both first pull, second pull and rotating the knob to adjust instrument brightness.
Next problem - pulling the headlight dimmer lever actuates the relay (I can hear the click), but it doesn't switch between low/high beam. Turn signals (both directions) work fine. The dimmer relay is a 5 prong unit with jumper between 56 and 30.
In other news, thanks to the advice from other threads, I've managed to get the original horn, interior dome lights and, heaven help me, the ignition door buzzer working again. Slowly but surely making progress... _________________ 1979 Microbus |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51128 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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Do the high beams come on as long as you are pulling the signal lever?
Might be time to open up that relay too, sometimes you can restore the latching action by carefully tweaking the ear the spring mounts on. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Do the high beams come on as long as you are pulling the signal lever?
Might be time to open up that relay too, sometimes you can restore the latching action by carefully tweaking the ear the spring mounts on. |
No high beams when lever is pulled, just a solid click from the relay. Opened up the relay and the latch action appears to function okay - similar to the video on this thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8235352#8235352 _________________ 1979 Microbus |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51128 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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Hmmm..., rather strange that nothing happens to the lights when it clicks, maybe your PO bypassed it somewhere? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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if you have low beams and the relay clicking does not change it to high beams, what does it change to? Stay low beams? go dark?
Be aware that the factory setup does not allow the lights to flash when they are off. HOWEVER there is a mod that allows one to set their highbeams to flash when the lever is pulled when the lights are in the off position. That mod requires a different relay and wiring change than the original factory setup. I made that mod on my own 77 bus but I labeled everything so the next person knows what I have done. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3551 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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Apparently every country other than the US has the flashing relay (which is probably why it's the only one you can buy as a replacement...) No big deal: if you want the US version of operation, tie the 30 terminal (the extra one) to 56. The only difference you'll see is that the high beams are on anytime you hold the turn lever up while the headlights are on. If you want European operation, tie 30 to the red bus section in the fuse block (full time 12 volts). The high beams will light when you hold the lever up, regardless of the headlight switch setting. You must tie 30 to something, otherwise the headlights won't light at all. Be sure to use a retaining type terminal that locks itself into the fuse block for the 30 connection. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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telford dorr wrote: |
Apparently every country other than the US has the flashing relay (which is probably why it's the only one you can buy as a replacement...) No big deal: if you want the US version of operation, tie the 30 terminal (the extra one) to 56. The only difference you'll see is that the high beams are on anytime you hold the turn lever up while the headlights are on. If you want European operation, tie 30 to the red bus section in the fuse block (full time 12 volts). The high beams will light when you hold the lever up, regardless of the headlight switch setting. You must tie 30 to something, otherwise the headlights won't light at all. Be sure to use a retaining type terminal that locks itself into the fuse block for the 30 connection. |
In the mod on mine, relays only work when the wire is in the correct place for that style relay. You can't use the old style relay in mine now. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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SGKent wrote: |
if you have low beams and the relay clicking does not change it to high beams, what does it change to? Stay low beams? go dark? |
Yes, it stays low beams. Anyway, I picked up a new relay this afternoon and that seems to have fixed the issue. Just have a 30/56 jumper wire in place at the moment, but may go the route of the Euro mod and tie 30 to full time 12V on the fuse box.
Thanks again for all the help. Really appreciate it! _________________ 1979 Microbus |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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if you think you have a bum switch let me know. somehow I ended up with a glut of VERY clean OE switches and the rheostat worms are in fantastic shape. i'll let one go for 1.2m free shipping and insurance too
I have never had luck popping a switch open. seems I kill the dimmer side of things. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3551 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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If you have a switch which has a terminal 57, I'll take one of those right now! If it also has a terminal X, then so much the better. (Don't know about the 1.2m... )
Yeah, about those dimmers: 99% have bad glue holding them into the bakelight housing. Getting one out intact is tricky at best. On the other hand, if not too badly mangled, slide it over a suitable rod or small screwdriver and carefully reshape the coil. Then glue it back into the housing with a thin strip of J/B weld in the bottom of the housing groove. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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Well, I thought I'd fixed everything with you guys help yesterday - main beams/low beams working with the turn signal lever and headlights working consistently with new aftermarket switch.
Today, I've found a new issue. When I pull the hazard knob (no key in ignition), the hazards flash but there's a weird "clicking/pulsing" noise from somewhere near the rear of the bus. You can hear it in the background of the following video (might need to turn the volume up a bit). Any ideas what this could be?
Update: the noise also happens with key in ignition and turned to accessory position (i.e. not engaging the starter).
Apologies for all the questions - hopefully this will be the last fix for a while.
Link
_________________ 1979 Microbus |
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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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More info...
I checked the wiring from the hazard switch. All looks good and the wires appear to go to their correct locations. I did find a weird jumper at the back of the fuse box from fuse 12 to the hazard relay though. What purpose would that serve?
Also, not sure if it's relevant - the PO removed the heater/blower from the engine bay, but the wiring and relay are still in place. Would that be a factor?
The Bus also has a BA6 heater - PO didn't know it existed and doubt it's been started up in years. I have no plans to touch it at the moment either, but thought it was worth mentioning in case it helps with the current issue.
Feel like I'm going around in circles, but at least I'm starting to get familiar with the wiring diagram _________________ 1979 Microbus |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3551 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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stevespeirs wrote: |
I checked the wiring from the hazard switch. All looks good and the wires appear to go to their correct locations. I did find a weird jumper at the back of the fuse box from fuse 12 to the hazard relay though. What purpose would that serve? |
Looking at the schematic, in column 45, you'll see that the white wire on the flasher relay (the power input) is supposed to get its power from the e-flasher switch, such that power comes from full-time 12 volts when pulled out, and from the ignition switch when pushed in. Apparently, the PO couldn't get this to work, so he tied it directly to ignition switch power. The downside of this would be that, if the e-flasher switch actually worked as it is supposed to, pulling out the e-switch, along with making the lights flash, would bypass the ignition switch and apply power to the engine ignition - probably not something you want....
I'd remove the jumper and fix whatever is wrong at the e-flasher switch. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51128 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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telford dorr wrote: |
The downside of this would be that, if the e-flasher switch actually worked as it is supposed to, pulling out the e-switch, along with making the lights flash, would bypass the ignition switch and apply power to the engine ignition - probably not something you want....
I'd remove the jumper and fix whatever is wrong at the e-flasher switch. |
Possibly the source of that mystery noise back there? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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busdaddy wrote: |
telford dorr wrote: |
The downside of this would be that, if the e-flasher switch actually worked as it is supposed to, pulling out the e-switch, along with making the lights flash, would bypass the ignition switch and apply power to the engine ignition - probably not something you want....
I'd remove the jumper and fix whatever is wrong at the e-flasher switch. |
Possibly the source of that mystery noise back there? |
Let's hope so. Job for tomorrow. Thanks all! _________________ 1979 Microbus |
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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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Oh so close
Removed the jumper and the hazards work correctly with key out i.e. pull the knob, hazards flash, no weird clicking/pulsing sound, no alternator/oil light illuminated in the dash. Great stuff!
However, with key turned to accessory position, alternator/oil light illuminate as expected, but the clicking/pulsing noise kicks in right away. Hazards work correctly, parking lights/headlights are fine with the light switch, and even the turn signal dimmer works (pull on/pull off). Annoying door buzzer sounds with key in and door open. Interior light works with door open too. Everything is good aside from that clicking/pulsing from somewhere near the rear of the Bus when ignition key is turned to accessory position.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I can't thank you all enough for the excellent advice. One more fix and I think we're done! _________________ 1979 Microbus |
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stevespeirs Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy headlight switch 211 941 531B |
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Final update.
1. Switched out the dimmer relay for a new one from Wolfsburg West -
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111941583
2. Hooked up the Euro flasher/dimmer mod as detailed by Tcash -
Tcash wrote: |
RETROFIT 111 941 583
To retrofit the replacement 111 941 583 relay, you need to provide power to Terminal #30 for the Flash function.
This can be achieved by making the following pigtail wire connector.
601LR - 16-14AWG Open Barrel - Female - w/Locking Tab
Red 6" piece of 14 gauge wire
811LR - 16-14AWG Open Barrel - Female - Piggyback
Disconnect the battery ground.
Remove the fasteners securing the fuse box.
Push the open barrel terminal with the locking tab into the socket on the back of the fuse box that #30 locates in.
Connect the other end of the wire to constant power. (one of the fuse box terminals that has power all of the time with the key off)
Plug relay in
Remount the fuse box.
Reconnect battery ground.
Pull up on the turn signal stock and flash away. |
3. Reconnected battery
4. Tested hazards and flashers. Check!
5. Key on. Tested parking lights, headlights, hazards, low/main beam. Check! Faint buzzing from the rear of the Bus, but wiggling the headlight knob/switch stopped the noise. This is the same headlight switch that contained some cracked bakelite. Could the rheostat be causing the buzzing? For now, I've managed to stop the noise.
Skills is sending me a replacement headlight switch, which I think will cure the issue once and for all. Thanks for bearing with me on this. I've learnt a lot and managed to clean up a bunch of PO stuff at the same time. _________________ 1979 Microbus |
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