Buying a Beetle - looking for advice

[ashman40]

[[email protected]]

I would agree that the 69 is the nicer car of the two, but I’m pretty sure you will end up hating the autostick. It’s a novelty type of a thing that is a neat system, but the additional drag of the driveline really puts a load on the engine slowing acceleration quite a bit. I don’t mind the retrofitting of the early bumpers, but deviations from stock are a negative for most. Couple that with an autostick driveline, and your possible future resale buying audience will be limited.

As for the 67, $7500 is by no means out of line, but not necessarily for that car. “Holy grail”, and “everything is original” are really laying on thick for the sale. 67’s are more desirable than earlier 60’s, and later 70’s models, but I would say most here would consider pre 60 cars more valuable than a 67. And I can’t believe the horn grill Nazi’s haven’t chimed in yet.... It seems to be a pet peeve of most on this site that aftermarket early fenders usually have the horn grill spaced farther away from the apron. A factory VW fender has the horn grill about 1 1/2 inches from the apron. It looks like both in the front picture of the 67 are further away than that designating that both front fenders have been replaced. And the fender beading was color matched, but not painted over. A simple description of “mostly original paint” would have better stated the condition. The spare rim is an earlier model, so in fact, everything is NOT original. That makes me question what else may, or may not be trying to be mislead.

[sb001]

The 67 is the better choice of the two but not because the 69 has an autostick or may be off a bit from stock with its restoration. I love its look and the autostick is a great efficient system that might be a tiny bit slower than a 4 speed but whose "lag" in acceleration is nowhere near what the naysayers purport it to be, if it is then there's something else wrong with the car. The 67 is simply a better choice because of its uniqueness (as outlined by ashman above.) And there's absolutely nothing in those pictures above or in the ad that scream "misleading." Of course you wouldn't know until you inspect it but it's definitely worth a look. I'm not dissing the 69 at all but part of the charm of a car like the 67 is the ease and fun with which you can bring it up to speed yourself (unless it's rusted. Did I mention look for rust?)
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I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[allsidius]

[bufftone]

This is all extremely useful insight everyone, even the opinionated insights. I will have to say that as nice as the '69 is, I think I may regret it. Part of the charm of owning my westy is all the work and time I've put into it myself and I feel that if I bought a bug all ready to go, Im just purchasing someone elses completed project. Not to say i cant make it my own, but I still think I want a project vehicle, just not something too far gone. The '67 seems like it would be a good project car that is, at this point, 100% drivable and safe. Guy says the brake system was just overhauled and the engine is also relatively newly rebuilt so we'll se whats actually true.

There is no way I would spend a premium of $7,500 on a car that would need a lot of work, even if it is a one year only type of bug. So I'm gonna go back to the guy and give him and offer of what Im willing to pay before I drive 4 hours to go inspect it. I really don't want to throw any more than 4k into a project car so thats what Im going to offer I think. I'll preface it with "I truly dont mean to inult (because I dont) .............. but thats what it is worth to me."

He truly believes that everything is original, though he doesn't seem to know much about the beetle besides what he has seen on youtube and what the prior owner told him. So Im going to back my offer with some of the insights you all gave, so if you see anything else that appears to be off, please dont hesitate to chime in..

Thanks again all!
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81' Vanagon Westfalia
Former '69 Westy owner

[sb001]

[johneliot]

Looking for advice was your subject so I'll give you mine.
I don't want this to turn into a flaming debate but this is what I know after having and restoring a 69. I would not buy a bug that had an auto stick. Not because I don't like them or anything like that, BUT, they don't make parts for it anymore, so you have to find used and hope they are still good. There are very few old timer mechanics that worked at the dealership out there anymore. If you can't do your own wrenching, who will you go to? Buy an auto stick, do your own work and love it and that's great. Maybe you'll get lucky and never have a problem. With 50+ year old technology, good luck with that. As an owner, backyard mechanic, I still have a couple of old timers that worked at the dealership in the 70's, so I don't have to do any wrenching that I don't want to. That'll change in a bit, but I like giving them my business for now. They are a kick to talk to.
You have feel comfortable with your skills. Looked to the worst case scenario, and make a decision from there. The more you have to work on it, the less you get to drive it. As was said, buy the best you can afford and avoid rust!
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John

There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress.
Mark Twain

69 bug - "The Grey Ghost"

[Dwayne1m]

JMO, but assuming the 67 is solid with no major rust, I feel $7500 is a bit high, but I also feel your offer of $4000 is to low. Also, if I understand you correctly, you are willing to invest an additional $4000 to restore it. Unless you're going to do the work yourself $4000 won't get you very far. Some guys put premium value on 67's. I'm not one of them. I prefer the early 60's over a 67 when it comes to 60's Bugs. From my understanding the 67's were the last of a generation in that starting in 68 VW started to mass produce Bugs, and the government injected their 2 cents in with regulations. If I'm wrong someone correct me.

[bufftone]

[bufftone]

More pictures. I asked him what the undercarriage looked like and he had no idea because he's never looked underneath (weird). These are what he sent. Im not really loving what Im seeing, but it could be worse. Any thoughts would be helpful.

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81' Vanagon Westfalia
Former '69 Westy owner

[Dwayne1m]

Maybe the biggest question to be answered is what is your desire for a Bug. Do you want an older Bug that will be of more value but will cost you more to buy, or do you just want a Bug to play with and be a daily driver? You can buy late 60's thru 70's Bugs cheaper then you can buy pre 67's, but they won't be worth as much. Take that 67 as an example. Just because it's a 67 he's asking a high price for it. If it were say a 73 in the same condition, it would be thousands less.

[Chris333]

What were they asking for the 69? Just curious.

[ashman40]

Maybe I'm missing something in the pics of the '67?
I see rust holes in the battery area. This is almost a given for an original Beetle pan. There are specific repair panels JUST for this problem because it is a VERY common problem. I've even seen rusted thru repair panels! If it DIDN'T have rust there I'd suspect it had been repaired at some point in the past.

The "crusty" look of the underside could be dirt or old undercoating/paint. You'd need to take a closer look. You are looking for more than surface rust. Also look for damage from accidents.


I see surface rust in the left rear seat area. This could be a sign of a water leak. Check the area under/behind the rear side and rear windows. Look for water damage or rust. One common area that can be expensive to repair is the rear package tray behind the rear seat (under the rear window). There is a repair panel for this area as well but replacement is expensive. Here is what can happen when the rear window leaks water:

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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[TDCTDI]

[Cusser]

[bufftone]

[finster]

for my pennies worth - the first two pics of the 67 show that the bumper is crooked so has it had a hit on the passenger side? evidence would be creasing in the inner fender/bumper mount area. and always dubious when a vendor changes from 'knowing what a gem he has' to not knowing much about it....

[boundstaffpress]

I see a 1969 for $7k that looks like it would need very little work to drive and enjoy compared to a 1967 for $7.5k that would likely will need body, interior, and detail work before it was comfortable to drive. I would pursue the '69. My first bug was a '63. I looked for for several years for a pre-66 bug for my kids. I finally bought a solid '73 Super for a great price. Turns out the '73 is just as much fun as my old bug. The '67 seems to have pitted chrome and original but worn bumpers, and rust. The '69 may be hiding some issues too, but they are not as obvious in the photos.
I would offer $5k for the 67 and $6.5k for the 69. I'd be willing to meet the asking price on the 69, but I wouldn't go higher on the 67.
my $.02
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Justin

Building a 73 Super Beetle with my kids.

[74 standard]

My bug was a Vermont bug. Check it WELL for rust. Mine took allot of work.

[bufftone]