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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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smitty24 wrote: |
This type of thing is debated with the performance guys constantly. I personally don’t think most smaller engines need extra vents and breathers beyond stock. However, my old 1904 with 86b and twin IDF on DRD heads would wind up hard and rip high rpms whilst keeping itself dry. My current 2054 with Engle 120 and panchitos would piss oil at lower rpms especially going 70 up big hills and mountains. I ran an old school cb breather with a line coming from stock tower to the breather then to the right hand carb. You have to have slight positive pressure to make it pull. A quality breather will separate the crap that would otherwise go down your carb throat. There’s more than one way but that’s how I do it. I don’t run anything to the valve covers. Proper thermostat with flap assembly setup and engine warmups limit the milky water condensation that gets in the engine. |
The only reason you would run anything to the valve covers is if the engine was in a dune buggy application. VW engine that are running in the sand have their pully's blocked off so no clean air will enter the crankcase with sand contaminating the crankcase, so they put hose nipples in the valve covers. only problem is they don't pressurize the crankcase with clean fresh air. |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16757 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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Ok - real quick and dirty - yeah just run your hose to the air cleaner. Have that on a couple of my cars. But be careful that it is not kinked at all. If you keep that filler, one thing I do sometimes is open up the inside of the nipple a little Probably doesnt do much though.
There are a couple different style stock filler. The ones with the tube that run down by the cylinder and the ones that dont have the tube. Probably half of the ones I have seen without, have a small rust hole in them because of water being trapped in it. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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57BLITZ wrote: |
I also installed a 1/4" tube on the bottom of the box as a drain and I was very surprised to see how much water drained out of the box!
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This is nearly ALL water! My breather box collected this much in one week!
_________________ Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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calvinater Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014 Posts: 3328 Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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[quote="Glenn"]I run my breather through an existing hole in the right rear fender with a foam button filter on the end. When the car is moving a low pressure area develops in the fender well and evacuates the breather.
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Glenn got any pics of this set up? |
_________________ "Albatross"! |
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sonoma_vw Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2013 Posts: 464 Location: Sonoma County
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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57BLITZ wrote: |
sonoma_vw wrote: |
. . . the crappy extended filler. Will get the stock version . . . |
Good idea!
The advantage to the stock filler . . . any bad stuff in the hose that drains back while the engine is off will collect inside the stock filler and will drain out through the "road-draft tube" and will exit under the car . . . NOT back into your engine!
FWIW . . . I installed a Bugpack breather box on my firewall.
Pipe-plugs seal the 2 unused inlet nipples.
I also installed a 1/4" tube on the bottom of the box as a drain and I was very surprised to see how much water drained out of the box!
My '62 "daily" . . . 1600cc . . .
BTW . . . I think ya made a good call installing the OEM fanhousing! |
Thank you 57BLITZ. Your setup is a very nice arrangement for me to try to mimic. It's hard to find a Dual carb engine with fresh air setup. But I'd love to see more examples. (I won't get into how the left air hose is partially blocked under the tin due to VS exhaust pipe being in the way )
Here is an updated pic with the stock filler. I've routed that hose to my Rt carb, but may do the breather box scenario. Also all my wiring needs to be cleaned up. Mulling over getting the fan housing painted black as well. (is an off-color fan housing something that gets a negative mark for car shows?)
And not digging the white plastic 90 degree angle connector on top of the RT Webber carb. Can those be replaced?
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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Looks like the hose is now going down the center of the air filter and not being filtered, plus only one carb gets it so the mixture is imbalanced. |
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Mos6502 Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2015 Posts: 725
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:07 am Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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That's how most crankcase ventilation works... when there is a screen or mesh, it's not to filter the crankcase fumes, it's a backfire baffle. The air/fuel mixture won't be imbalanced by the breather tube either (this is after all the same way the Porsche 356 is set up, with the breather connected to the right side carb). If one is paranoid about the oil mist coming out of the breather, they can install a catch can. |
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herbie1200 Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2006 Posts: 833 Location: Rome - Italy
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:30 am Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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The crankcase fumes should NOT be filtered, especially if the filtering element is paper or tissue.
The risk is to have condensed oil on the paper that obstructs air intaking.
For me too is a good idea to connect the two carbs to make both intaking crankcase fumes.
My proposa is to put a "T" connector just in the middle distance from carburetors so both have the same fumes (they could condense along the travel).
AND, considering that fumes are at low pressure and temperature, use very light hoses to not weigh on carburetors. |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5600 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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Since I put this 'back on' oil leaks have pretty much disappeared...
Notice the gasket between the 'custom' oil filler and the alternator base? It's a copper crush gasket for a single port intake manifold. Fits perfect.
_________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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[quote="Mos6502"]That's how most crankcase ventilation works..
Not in VW's stock air filter. That hose from the breather separator goes to the snout of the air cleaner where the incoming air velocity is fastest to pull or create suction out of the breather oil separator and filtering air through the air cleaner before it goes to the carburetor. Unlike below like most cars do.
Most cars get clean filtered air from the air cleaner that goes to valve covers circulates the crankcase is picked up at the opposite valve cover or to a valley cover which has a PCV valve that goes to the base of the intake manifold not messing up the carburetor.
Last edited by Helfen on Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sonoma_vw Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2013 Posts: 464 Location: Sonoma County
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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Helfen wrote: |
Looks like the hose is now going down the center of the air filter and not being filtered, plus only one carb gets it so the mixture is imbalanced. |
The 34 dual Webber setup only has one carb with a top hose connector.
Last edited by sonoma_vw on Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5600 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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Quote: |
Not in VW's stock air filter. That hose from the breather separator goes to the snout of the air cleaner where the incoming air velocity is fastest to pull or create suction out of the breather oil separator and filtering air through the air cleaner before it goes to the carburetor. |
How does that work with this type of stock air filter with the hose fitting on the other side of the 'snout'?
_________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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sonoma_vw Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2013 Posts: 464 Location: Sonoma County
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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runamoc wrote: |
Quote: |
Not in VW's stock air filter. That hose from the breather separator goes to the snout of the air cleaner where the incoming air velocity is fastest to pull or create suction out of the breather oil separator and filtering air through the air cleaner before it goes to the carburetor. |
How does that work with this type of stock air filter with the hose fitting on the other side of the 'snout'?
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I’d like to know too, but that filter prob can’t be used with a dual carb setup. (I may be overstating the obvious, but I’m not clear if those oil baths can be used for dual carb arrangements) |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5600 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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Quote: |
that filter prob can’t be used with a dual carb setup. (I may be overstating the obvious, but I’m not clear if those oil baths can be used for dual carb arrangements) |
_________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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Mos6502 Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2015 Posts: 725
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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runamoc wrote: |
Quote: |
that filter prob can’t be used with a dual carb setup. (I may be overstating the obvious, but I’m not clear if those oil baths can be used for dual carb arrangements) |
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...that won't work!
At least not if it still has the stock internals - you can't (or rather shouldn't) reverse the air flow through an oil bath filter, since the air needs to travel over the oil trap before going through the mesh. The whole point of the oil "bath" is that it filters the bigger debris to keep them from clogging the mesh.
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Most cars get clean filtered air from the air cleaner that goes to valve covers circulates the crankcase is picked up at the opposite valve cover or to a valley cover which has a PCV valve that goes to the base of the intake manifold not messing up the carburetor. |
Helfen, Take a look at the paper element air filter fitted to 1970's Beetles, and tell me what you find out.
(beside that, even though the crankcase vapors go through the filter media in the oil bath filters - the media is literally oil, and oil covered mesh, so how that would pull the oil out of the air and keep it from messing up the carb is beyond me) |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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Sorry guys the two oil bath air cleaners that I want to post will not copy and paste on the Samba. That goes for anything I want to copy any paste here. Any other site no problem, just here. |
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sonoma_vw Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2013 Posts: 464 Location: Sonoma County
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Breather to connect hose to dual carb or not? |
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Sweden’s VW Aircooled site is the same way. You have to post the pic to the gallery 1st, then it’s really easy to add the pic to your post. Sorry. |
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