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BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires?
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OldBlueSyncro
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

So the time has finally come to get my syncro on the road. Just in time for winter!

I initially had planned to get it on the road for summer, so I had ordered a set of bf goodrich's A/T ko2's. Now that winters approaching, I'm wondering if anyone has any experience on how they perform in the winter? Specifically a northern winter?

I guess they're technically a winter rated all-season tire, but I'm just wondering if people have any experience about how they stack up against a true winter tire.
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SCM
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

I run them on my Westy and had them on my old SUV for about 20 Montana winters. I really don't like them in the snow and would take my wife's 2wd Jetta with snow tires (either Hancook I-pikes or Blizzaks) EVERY time I had to drive on a snowy highway rather than use the 4wd SUV.

I think they work fine for slow speed driving through unplowed snow but once the snow gets packed down or icy the BFGs just didn't grip like a real studded or non-studded snow tire.
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Jake de Villiers
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

Compared to real winter tires they are very inferior, made with the wrong tread pattern, the wrong carcass and the wrong rubber!

Its a bummer to have to put out the cash for a whole other set of tires and wheels but its really worth it in the long run.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

I think they are the best All Terrain tire in the snow that I have tried on the van. The KO2 is noticably better than the prior KO model. BFG says something like 18% better snow traction. Who knows exactly what they were measuring but I can tell the difference. They always did good in off road crunchy snow, and they were good on road in fresh powder. Their biggest weakness before was hard pack snow on the road, or ice. But the KO2s do a lot better in that area now.

If you are only going to run one tire year round, they are an excellent choice.
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SCM
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

davevickery wrote:
But the KO2s do a lot better in that area now.


Oh, I should say all of my experience was with the older KOs, not the KO2s. If the new ones address the shortcomings of the old, maybe they are better now. I still prefer dedicated winter/summer tires.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

For a SNOW tire, ATs are not the best. Better than many all seasons and all those highway tires we have available in 185r14c, it is true. However if you really live in snow or ice, and you should try a dedicated snowtire. (I dont know what part of BC you live in. I know some is near artic but coastal is quite temperate.) You wont believe the difference.

There are numerous tests on youtube, braking distances and starting acceleration tests. I ignored them til I lived in UP Michigan. I scoffed at the tests indicating the winter tires helped more than adding awd to a vehicle, but I believe it now. And the winter tires help stopping. Awd doesnt.

I got by with a RWD truck for a year w weight in the back and winter tires, despite living on a steep hill and having an even steeper driveway, which my car would sometimes slide off if I had much ice so I could actually park at the top lol.

ATs on it were ok, (Firestones IIRC) but snow tires were night and day better. It is a bit like running tires chains as far as grip goes, w/o all the noise and vibration. The have some abrasive stuff actually embeddded in the rubber.

Winter tires are however quite soft. You dont want to run them much on clear roads and certainly not hot asphalt. They will be worn out in one year if you do.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

BFG continues to improve the snow ability of their offroad tires, but they're not going to come close to a dedicated winter tire. I don't think that's what you're suggesting, of course and you likely knew that.

It's not the ideal winter choice but I think it will get you around fine. Just use caution on hard packed snow and certainly ice.

Nemo - just a couple comments. Commonly available winter tires don't have abrasive bits in the rubber unless you are talking about the retread tires that have been fading from availability. I did not know those were even around anymore - have not seen a set for 20 years. Now you've got me curious! Those were kinda cool and had walnut shells molded in the rubber. They worked a little bit, too.

Modern winter tires actually get their grip from specially designed tread patterns and from a modern silica rubber compound that helps prevent the pressure points on ice. That pressure briefly melts ice as the tire patch rolls across it and results in a constant thin film of water under the rubber - very slick. Normal or summer tires do that, winter tires don't.

Also the winter compounds of many silica tires also are not as prone to premature wear on dry pavement as in the old days.

Overall, I think the KM2 tire was a good choice but after a year or two they may diminish in effectiveness and that give you time to plan for winter tires on rims.
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OldBlueSyncro
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

SCM wrote:
davevickery wrote:
But the KO2s do a lot better in that area now.


Oh, I should say all of my experience was with the older KOs, not the KO2s. If the new ones address the shortcomings of the old, maybe they are better now. I still prefer dedicated winter/summer tires.


The plan is definitely to get a set of studded winters on their own rims in the future, but at the moment I'll just have to live with these this winter. 2 sets of tires and another set of rims is a bit out of my budget at the moment.

After posting this, I realized that a work truck I used in Northern Canada may have had these. I'm 90% sure they were the first KOs. They seemed to do very well in the winter running 4high a lot of the time. The only sketchy moment I had with them was coming home after a few weeks working in camp and the driveway had turned to a slab of ice from the temperature going from -20c to +10c and then back to -20c. I nearly slid into the house I was renting a room in.
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kevinm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

Nokian Rotiiva AT's have a severe weather rating:

https://www.nokiantires.com/all-season-tires/nokian-rotiiva-at/

I know they're not dedicated snow tires, but the tread has the jaggeddy look of a snow tire. I'm running these in 215/65R-16 on my syncro westy and like them a lot on dry pavement and mild offroad trails. I've not tried them in snow though.
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Steve Arndt
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

The Rotiiva was great on packed snow/ice at first. Later though, like after 30% worn they are very poor. I won't buy the Rotiiva again. I'm going to get KO2 next, but Cooper studded Evolution Winter for this winter then buy the BFGs in the spring. Ouch. I need a second set of CLKs too come spring.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

snow tires are cheaper than replacing fenders & body panels.
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OldBlueSyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
snow tires are cheaper than replacing fenders & body panels.


Very smart words to live by.
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OldBlueSyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

Steve Arndt wrote:
The Rotiiva was great on packed snow/ice at first. Later though, like after 30% worn they are very poor. I won't buy the Rotiiva again. I'm going to get KO2 next, but Cooper studded Evolution Winter for this winter then buy the BFGs in the spring. Ouch. I need a second set of CLKs too come spring.


Those Cooper tires look pretty good and the local shop here can get them. What size of tire are you running with those?
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

OldBlueSyncro wrote:
Steve Arndt wrote:
The Rotiiva was great on packed snow/ice at first. Later though, like after 30% worn they are very poor. I won't buy the Rotiiva again. I'm going to get KO2 next, but Cooper studded Evolution Winter for this winter then buy the BFGs in the spring. Ouch. I need a second set of CLKs too come spring.


Those Cooper tires look pretty good and the local shop here can get them. What size of tire are you running with those?


I tried a set of the Rotiivas thinking that with Nokians reputation for winter tires, these All Terrain tires would be at the top of the pack in terms of snow driving. They are a good tire but I would put them on par with most other All Terrain tires that fit on our vans. I thgought thye were very similar to the Firestone Destination AT. And very close to the new Geolanders G015 AT. The tread is a little deeper on the Rotiiva but for snow, I think there might a slight nod to the Geolanders, certainly no better on the hard pack I don't think. I didn't have a million miles on any of those tires but I have used them all on a syncro. The Rotiiva does about average in terms of wear on the roads here in Colorado. I would have kept them and been very happy but they were a size too big for my liking (225/70-16). I sold them and got the smallest BFG AT KO2. And last year I got a set of the Geolanders on my other rims to see if they would give me a softer ride. The Geolanders are not as good in any traction situation as the BFGs but they are smoother. The difference in smoothness is minimal, but the traction difference is noticeable off road. The Rotiiva was a little better off road than the Geolanders. All good tires in my opinoin.
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BUGSLEE
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

Great in Snow, Not so Good On Ice

If I used mine as a daily in Winter, I would get a set of dedicated winter tires.



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

We've always had a set of dedicated winter tires on extra wheels for all of our old Subies, and also any Vanagons. When I've felt too poor, I remind myself that one accident is a lot more expensive than extra tires, and the peace of mind is immeasurable. Have KO2's on a Syncro, but also Michelin X-Ice's for winter even though winter miles are minimal. Changing the wheels is also a good opportunity to take a close look at brakes and CV's, etc.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

Dave, thanks for the tire input. Good stuff and good to know as our tire choices narrow periodically.
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Colorado Yeti
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

I have them on my 2WD Westy and my 2005 Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited. I absolutely love them in the snow. However, I have never had the $$$ for dedicated winter tires for my vehicles, so it may not be a fair comparison.
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Yondermtn
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

I have the KO2s on my Wrangler and am happy with them in snow.
I had the KOs on my Wrangler and on my old Bronco and liked those in the snow too.

I have the 14" KOs on my Vanagon, but don't drive it in snow.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: BF Goodrich All Terrains ko2 for winter tires? Reply with quote

michaelbteam wrote:
We've always had a set of dedicated winter tires on extra wheels for all of our old Subies, and also any Vanagons. When I've felt too poor, I remind myself that one accident is a lot more expensive than extra tires, and the peace of mind is immeasurable. Have KO2's on a Syncro, but also Michelin X-Ice's for winter even though winter miles are minimal. Changing the wheels is also a good opportunity to take a close look at brakes and CV's, etc.


What size of those michelin x-ice's are you running? I've got 215/75's on 15's right now, but I can't seem to find a winter tire where I won't lose too much ride height.
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