Fuel pump recommendations, please

[Mos6502]

What do the spark plugs look like? Dark? Light? Dry? Wet?

Do you have a vacuum gauge handy? I would suggest setting the idle mixture with the vacuum gauge than doing it by ear. Set the idle speed to 900-1000rpm, then use the vacuum gauge to get the highest vacuum reading with the idle mixture screw. Engine should be warm when doing this.

[Bill T.]

Answer to last question; spark plugs are black and reek of gasoline
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'78 Super Beetle Convertible
'72 Triumph TR6

[Bill T.]

Here’s a new bit of info that MAY be important.

I went to double check my point gap. I set the motor to TDC, popped the cap and checked the gap. It measures .006”???

Looked at the position of the rubbing block on the cam lobe and it is not sitting on the high point of the lobe when the motor is at TDC

So, I triple checked my TDC setting and made sure that when the motor is at TDC that the rotor is pointing to the notch on the distributor case and the rotor tip is pointing to cylinder #1 contact point inside the cap.

BUT, when all above is set, the felt rubbing block is NOT sitting on top of the cam lobe. In order to open the points all the way, I have to rotate the distributor body several degrees clockwise.

Is it possible my distributor is indexed wrong?

[img]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1841787.jpg[/omg

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'78 Super Beetle Convertible
'72 Triumph TR6

[Bill T.]

You can see the rotor tip is not pointing to the notch on the case when the points are open max
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'78 Super Beetle Convertible
'72 Triumph TR6

[AlmostHeavenWV_VW]

[wcfvw69]

[Bill T.]

Hi Bill F.

I’d say you are pretty spot on w the diagnosis. I pulled my distributor this am and can see that my slot is not pointing perpendicular to the center line of the case.

Do you just pull it up w pliers and move it over a notch?

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'78 Super Beetle Convertible
'72 Triumph TR6

[Pruneman99]

You can use the puller tool designed for that purpose, or a wooden dowel. Jam it into the hole and usually it will friction stick to the dowel enough you can lift it up and turn it into position.

[wcfvw69]

[Vanillagurilla]

Can we get back to the fact that his distributor gear being off 1 tooth ksnt causing his problem? Ditch the points and condenser and get a pertronix unit, best $100 I've spent on my cars but I still keep the old parts in the car just in case.

[wcfvw69]

His symptoms all scream carb issues, not points or condensers. Throwing another $100 dollar bill for a module won't resolve his current issue.

Bill, your symptoms that you're posting suggest your jetting is incorrect for that altitude which is why your plugs look that way. If it won't idle off choke, this indicates you have dirt/debris in your idle circuit. The 34-3 idle circuit is like a seperate carb inside the carb. The idle jet and their tiny passages inside that carb have to be spotless. As mentioned earlier, you have to insure you have no vacuum leaks anywhere on the intake manifold or carb. The float adjustment is critical on these carbs as well.

I sent my German Solex 34-3 lower carb body to Tim for him to just install new throttle shaft bushings. I then cleaned and rebuilt the carb myself. It also wouldn't idle off choke. Perplexed, I took the carb fully apart again. This time, I put all the carb parts, jets, etc that I thought were spotless in an ultrasonic parts cleaner with soapy water. It heats the water to 140 degrees. 30 minutes later, the water in the ultrasonic parts cleaner was black and dirty. It vibrated all that crap out of the passages deep inside the carb.

I re-assembled the carb, set the adjustments and the engine idles as smooth as silk off choke. I did have to turn the volume screw out probably 3 turns from closed. Don't get stuck in the 2.5 turns out on the adjustment screws. Some engines need more than that to be happy. I have this restored German Solex carb matched to a restored German Bosch DVDA that this engine had when delivered new. It's simply runs amazing. I haven't had to adjust anything but the valves on this engine in a couple of years.

Another thing to consider. Flag's elevation at 7k or more should require you to reset the jetting on the carb. I was just in Showlow with my bus. While it ran ok, it was obviously not as responsive with less oxygen in the air. So, I'd put a smaller main jet in it. You could also advance the timing 2-3* as well for that altitude.

While some people report success with the EMPI or other Chinese carbs, I'd personally avoid them at all costs. My bus had a brand new Empi carb on it when I bought it. I couldn't get it to work right at all. I took it apart and found it was a poorly made carb. Sloppy linkages, poor tolerances, etc.

There's a reason that Tim at Volkzbitz sells so many of his restored German Solex 34-3 carbs. People try to save a buck with a Chinese carb. They then can't get them to work and go to Tim. The restored German carb cures their problems.
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[Bill T.]

Well, bug warehouse sent me a new carb to swap in so I don’t have an extra to sell. Thanks for the offer andk.

Bill F. Is/was right in that the dist drive gear being off a tooth doesn’t effect anything. I thrived to pull it up w a dowl, but it wouldn’t come up. I finally gave up and just had to be okay w the fact that my distributor will not end up in the same place as others.

Got the new one out of the box and took the top off. I blasted every nook and crannny w carb cleaner and blew through compressed air. Put it on and the car runs! It actually runs decent. The bypass is out 4 turns and volume is 2 and 1/2 out. That the way I set them up when I put the carb back together. I haven’t even messed w them yet. I bought a tach/dwell meter so I hopefully I will have a little time to tune it today.

Most importantly, it starts, warms up, and idles on the lowest step of the cam. So, I will have to conclude that the first carb from EMPI really did have a bad leak in the throttle shaft bushings. Even straight out of the box, it was bad.

And I tried to buy one of Tim’s carbs when this all started, but he was out and I was impatient to get it running. So, I bought the EMPI as an experiment to see if it would cure the flat spot and stumbling I was experiencing with the rebuilt 34 and the new SVDA. The first EMPI carb didn’t and this one is TBD.

I agree w you Bill F. The settings on the screws, the position of the distributor, the timing, and jet size may all be different at 7k. Add that to the fact that the car was FI converted to carbs and there are a lot of variables to go through.

Not sure what lesson there is to draw from this?
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'78 Super Beetle Convertible
'72 Triumph TR6

[baldessariclan]

[Bill T.]

Thanks baldess,

Here’s the postscript. Car drives like shit. Idles ok. Kinda bounces up and down +|- 50 RPMs. Good thing about the second carb is that adjusting the bypass screws and the volume screws has an appreciable effect on the rpms and the exhaust fumes.

But getting it on the street is a white knuckle experience. With the timing at 7.5 degrees and the RPMs set near 850, it idles but it still Boggs down when you shift into gear and hit the gas. I have a JF4 Bosch distributor w Pertronix electronic ignition and flamethrower coil in the garage that I swapped in. It definitely improved the idle but driveability still sucks. It’s like the carb goes out of tune while you’re driving. It’s fine in the driveway and ok starting from a standstill but gets worse and worse while driving. You have to push the clutch in (car drops to normal steady idle) then nurse the gas until you get the revs up and then drop it into gear. Then slowly but not to slow accelerate. And it takes more coaxing the longer you drive it

So 2 different carbs, 2 different fuel pumps and 2 different ignition systems and I’m not much closer to getting this car on the road. I sent an email to Tim at Volksbiz to order a new German carb. I figure both of my existing carbs have dubious tolerances. Maybe third times a charm In the meantime, I’m gonna pull the gas tank (fuel sending unit has to be replaced anyway) so I’ll make sure everything is good, try a new carb and go from there
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'78 Super Beetle Convertible
'72 Triumph TR6

[baldessariclan]

Ugh — what a PITA! Back to the old drawing board...

So while you’re waiting for the Volksbitz rebuilt carb, you could still play around with / check a few things. Think you said you’ve already done this, but probably wouldn’t hurt to double-check your valve adjustments, and then compression readings on all the cylinders.

Now after those check out ok, if your car is idling ok and also runs smoothly / makes power at higher roms, but stumbles & threatens to stall at low rpms and high load (e.g. accelerating from a stop), suggests a couple more things to inspect:

1) Check and see if your accelerator pump is working correctly on the carb — with the air cleaner off and choke plate held wide open, when you look down throat of the carb you should see a long & steady squirt of fuel coming from the accelerator pump nozzle the moment you start opening the throttle plate.

2) See if your vacuum advance system is working correctly. Start with the distributor(s) — using a vacuum gauge and hand-held vacuum pump (or sucking on tube and blocking with tongue, in a pinch) connected to vacuum can on side of distributor, you should see the advance plate in top of distributor start to move around 55-100 mm Hg vacuum, and reach end of its travel by around 200 mm Hg vacuum (per Bentley manual specs, for 043 905 205 distributor).

Next check vacuum advance signal coming from the carb. As mentioned earlier in this thread, you want to use the nipple on left (driver’s) side of the carb, the one just above the idle adjustment screws. It connects to a small port (hole) in throat of the carb, which lies directly under the edge of the throttle plate when it’s closed. So at idle, the port is completely blocked by edge of the throttle plate, and there should be basically no vacuum reading coming from the nipple.

Once the throttle begins to open however, the port is unblocked and the fast rush of air passing by it (through small gap between throttle plate and carb throat wall) causes a large spike in vacuum signal at that port (from “venturi effect”).

As the throttle plate opens wider, the air speed past the port slows down (due to wider gap between throttle plate and carb wall), and the vacuum signal should reduce accordingly.

If either the accelerator pump and/or the vacuum advance system isn’t working correctly, you’re definitely going to get a bad “flat spot” or bog down when accelerating from idle or low speed, until rpms increase enough for the centrifugal advance in distributor to start kicking in and give you some timing advance and related increase in power...
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver

baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt...

[Bill T.]

Well, I think the mystery is solved.

I got my brand new, beautiful carb from Tim at Volksbiz and put it on. It took a while to get things going because it would not run on the new SVDA distributor I got from Bill F. I had to take that off and swap in the 009 w Pertronix electric ignition and the Flamethrower coil.

I got the car running but could not get it running smooth. Tim ships the carbs preset for your specific set up, but I really had to fiddle with the carb to get it running sorta OK.

Took her for a spin and still have to nurse the clutch and carb to get her going. The car runs fast once you get the RPM’s up. It lugs badly off the line. While I was out and about, I Wanted to see if all the cylinders were getting fire.

So I pulled the wires off the distributor, with the motor running. Pulled #1 and engine stumbled. Pulled #2, no big change. #3 stumble. #4 stumble. I can see and hear the spark going from the cap to the wires when I hold it close.

Soooo, took the advice to do a compression test and here are the results for each cylinder. I ran each test twice.
1. 70
2. 120
3. 80
4. 100

3 things about this long thread; 1. I’m an idiot. I had the motor out of the car and got it running in the garage. I never did a compression test. I could have saved my self months of anguish and busted knuckles by checking the compression before I installed it. And #2 is I want to cry.

#3 is I owe you all thanks for pitching in and giving me all your hard earned advice and experience.

Now I have to decide if I want to undertake a rebuild or buy an engine
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'78 Super Beetle Convertible
'72 Triumph TR6

[baldessariclan]

You're not an idiot -- it's just part of the more-or-less "normal" learning process. Ref. my signature line below... A similar quote I also like is: "Good judgment largely comes from experience -- and experience largely comes from bad judgment..." ha!

So yeah, can never get a motor with poor compression to run very well. To have anything worthwhile and reliable, you'll need to start with a good "foundation", no doubt.

That said, you may want to recheck your compression numbers using the "shot or two of oil into cylinders" trick, to help see if it's primarily the valves or the rings that are causing the compression problems.

The good news is that once you finally get your longblock fixed or rebuilt (either by yourself or from reputable mechanic / engine builder), you'll already have good carb and distributors on hand and ready to install!

I've personally found the initial learning curve on these cars to be somewhat steep and expensive as well. But if you truly enjoy fooling around with mechanical stuff, think it's a worthwhile endeavor in the long run. My car's still not 100% "perfect" (and likely never will be), but I really do find it very enjoyable to drive and work on nowadays, once I finally got a lot of the initial "roughest" stuff worked out.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver

baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt...

[andk5591]

I would do you test a second time. 1 and 3 are a bitch to get the adapter/hose on AND you are supposed to have the carb blades open when you do it. I have done both errors.....
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
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There's more, but not keeping them...

[Bill T.]

Thanks for the tip about the carb being open. I will do the test again tomorrow. I’ll add a squirt of oil and report back.

Does it make a difference if all the spark plugs are out? I took them out while I was testing and it was cold and dark when I finished. Didn’t have the motivation to put them back

Getting the adapter in 2 and 4 is a nightmare in my engine bay
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'78 Super Beetle Convertible
'72 Triumph TR6

[heimlich]

Check the spark plugs and make sure they are not fouled. Similar symptoms can be experienced.

I've had a similar issue with an engine. It's the ignition system that causes this along with the carb. You really have to start at the beginning and check every little bit including points, condenser, coil, ignition wires, spark plugs, valve adjust, carb, etc.
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