| Author |
Message |
splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4092
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:36 am Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
 |
|
I suspect that is a later non riveted popes nose that was modified to have rivets. Given all of the other iffy work on the car when you got it there is little surprise that it was missing two holes and had POP rivets.
_________________
Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
virtanen
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2006
Posts: 1461
Location: Finland
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:50 am Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| originalo wrote: |
Here pics of an original, untouched riveted pope´s nose. There is no doubt that they always used solid aluminium rivets. The lower center rivet holding the orange brakelight lens in place originally has a bigger head, as Mika Virtanen correctly informed already. The clear celluloid lens is not a plain lens, it is preformed on it´s edges:
|
Jan, can you see if there are any washers under the rivets? Inside.
I saw a nos riveted pope nose for sale at the latest Hessisch Oldendorf meeting, but I was stupid not taken any pictures or bought it.
_________________
Mika
Split beetle restoration panels
Oval beetle restoration panels
New projects |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
virtanen
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2006
Posts: 1461
Location: Finland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2002
Posts: 1243
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| Are the rivets left raw or painted originally? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
volksair
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
The rivets on our og ‘49 Belgian standard split are “raw” and not painted. You can just make them out if you zoom in a bit on the pic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DSweinhagen
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2002
Posts: 382
Location: Phoenix, AZ
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| splitjunkie wrote: |
| I suspect that is a later non riveted popes nose that was modified to have rivets. Given all of the other iffy work on the car when you got it there is little surprise that it was missing two holes and had POP rivets. |
I'm pretty sure it's the correct nose. The internal part lacks the "visor" that the later type has for holding the lens. It also has the early bulb holder.
Thanks for all the help here. Mika is sending a couple things and I'll check back in with what I figure out.
The engine just showed up...
_________________
David S |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fazeka
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005
Posts: 93
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
Stunning!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwhelmot
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2006
Posts: 617
Location: united kingdom
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:29 am Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| Lovely looking motor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
originalo
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:46 am Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| virtanen wrote: |
Jan, can you see if there are any washers under the rivets? Inside. |
Indeed you are right Mika, great hint: when removing the bulbholder and checking carefully the inside I could see that originally there are tiny washers under all (seven) smaller rivets except the bigger lower central one that also fixes the orange cellon! I took pics of that, more in the gallery, washer dia is 6mm.
And YES for the different bulbholder, to be seen here in the first and last pic:
Detail pic:
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Martin Southwell
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2010
Posts: 984
Location: Bath, England
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:00 am Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
As always, just when you think you know everything there is to know on a subject, somebody comes along to show you something different!
Here is a picture of an early Pope's nose, purchased by myself 40 years ago, which was exactly in the same state you see now. The price tag shows that it was item number 22 in somebodies sales collection, and that I paid £1 for it!
It seems that there are a total of 6 steel rivets holding the lens/film in place, along with steel washers, and 4 alloy rivets holding the lamp unit in place. Because of the differential corrosion between the steel and aluminium 3 of the 4 rivets have corroded away internally, leaving one rivet to hold it in place.
The original grey paint under the black looks to be same colour as that on my 47 Beetle, and has therefore to be of a similar vintage.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Second Air Force
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2017
Posts: 268
Location: Midwest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
On the subject of the lens material, I would suggest finding a hobby shop that carries Evergreen plastic sheet stock. They make a very nice clear plastic sheet that comes in a good variety of thicknesses. I've used this for many years and it can be vacuformed or carefully heated to conform to pretty complex curvatures (think of bubble canopies for fighter planes, for example). Never tried it for this application, but I'd be willing to bet it will work great.
_________________
1956 Standard Sedan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4092
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:50 am Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
So there were 6 rivet and 8 rivet versions of the popes nose. Interesting. I wonder which one is earlier? I would think the 6 rivet would be earlier
_________________
Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DSweinhagen
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2002
Posts: 382
Location: Phoenix, AZ
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
Cool, Great info Martin. Glad you found that before I drilled two more holes in this one! I was pretty certain it was the correct nose and that there was no sign of the two holes being welded.
Parts-wise, this car was pretty complete and this isn't the first time common knowledge has said something is wrong just to find out later, with more research, it's actually correct.
Thanks Again!
_________________
David S |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
originalo
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:05 am Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| DSweinhagen wrote: |
Cool, Great info Martin. Glad you found that before I drilled two more holes in this one! I was pretty certain it was the correct nose and that there was no sign of the two holes being welded.
Thanks Again! |
That indeed is a very interesting and surprising info that there was an evolution on the riveted pope´s nose. Such the ones who said there have to be 8 holes -including me- stand corrected  . Luckily no harm had been done to the ´47 nose yet  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WrennMetallWerks
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2007
Posts: 2653
Location: Rescue ca
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DSweinhagen
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2002
Posts: 382
Location: Phoenix, AZ
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| WrennMetallWerks wrote: |
Hey David. The car looks amazing, thank you for sharing the process with us. I have learned and continue to learn new things from this thread. Thanks for that!👊
I wanted to get your feedback about the mounting holes for the hood and decklid handle, we started with and then used a traditional opening assuming that was correct for its vintage. I see that your opening has a key way or a notch if you will (to assure proper alignment I guess) The handles or the removables that are with this 47 do not have that profile. Is it possible we do not have period correct equipment? I really appreciate any insight you can give me. Thanks in advance. Jason. |
Hey Jason, Thanks! Below is a pic of the handle base and opening... The hood is the same. I'm not sure, but if I had to guess I'd say this is another pre '49 detail? I'm sure someone here knows better than me. Obviously, it's a weak design. The hood was pretty messed up there and I did my best to clean it up.
Let me know if you need anymore pics or info.
_________________
David S |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DSweinhagen
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2002
Posts: 382
Location: Phoenix, AZ
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| originalo wrote: |
| DSweinhagen wrote: |
Cool, Great info Martin. Glad you found that before I drilled two more holes in this one! I was pretty certain it was the correct nose and that there was no sign of the two holes being welded.
Thanks Again! |
That indeed is a very interesting and surprising info that there was an evolution on the riveted pope´s nose. Such the ones who said there have to be 8 holes -including me- stand corrected . Luckily no harm had been done to the ´47 nose yet |
Hi originalo, I didn't mean to point fingers or anything, and especially not at you... I really appreciate your help here and your sense of humor. 
It's interesting even in this day of the internet there's still things to be learned on these cars. I don't claim to be an expert and have certainly been wrong on things before. I'm just lucky enough to be working on this car that's nice enough to fill in some blanks on these early beetles. I like to think we're all doing our best with the info we have.
_________________
David S |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WrennMetallWerks
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2007
Posts: 2653
Location: Rescue ca
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| DSweinhagen wrote: |
| WrennMetallWerks wrote: |
Hey David. The car looks amazing, thank you for sharing the process with us. I have learned and continue to learn new things from this thread. Thanks for that!👊
I wanted to get your feedback about the mounting holes for the hood and decklid handle, we started with and then used a traditional opening assuming that was correct for its vintage. I see that your opening has a key way or a notch if you will (to assure proper alignment I guess) The handles or the removables that are with this 47 do not have that profile. Is it possible we do not have period correct equipment? I really appreciate any insight you can give me. Thanks in advance. Jason. |
Hey Jason, Thanks! Below is a pic of the handle base and opening... The hood is the same. I'm not sure, but if I had to guess I'd say this is another pre '49 detail? I'm sure someone here knows better than me. Obviously, it's a weak design. The hood was pretty messed up there and I did my best to clean it up.
Let me know if you need anymore pics or info.
|
I thank you very much man... I would agree with you that it could more then likely be another pre 49 detail. I will continue to do research and hope that anybody else with some insight will chime in. Thanks again
_________________
⚒ Believe In The Power Of Positive Thinking ⚒
Purpose Over Pleasure 🕊
“Hard Werk ⚒ God First “
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=0-PSeV52tZ4&si=wpcuRnQyvIFo2nCJ
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=PaCorLXzC5w&si=cbzT8fjlzVlIWfSV
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=_aoE5aYSutY&si=mkZKPxd_41QA1kfs
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=_NzUyyVexAE&feature=share
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=UI8yUrIWS7E&feature=share |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DSweinhagen
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2002
Posts: 382
Location: Phoenix, AZ
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
Here's some more assembly... Bumpers are assembled and installed, taillights installed...
The VIN plate cleaned up nice and got it back on...
_________________
David S |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwhelmot
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2006
Posts: 617
Location: united kingdom
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 am Post subject: Re: 1947 Beetle Restoration |
|
|
| Lovely . Great job. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
