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DILLIGAF08
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2018
Posts: 30
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 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:54 pm Post subject: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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I retired a few years ago and since then I’ve discovered working is all I really know how to do so I purchased my dads old 1967 Ghia for a “little” restoration project. My plan is to go completely though it, that is until I run out of funds or lay down for my permanent dirt nap, whichever comes first. I’ve restored a couple VW’s in my younger days, a 1968 bug and 1960 crew cab (which I still regret selling) so I’ve got a bit of experience with VW’s but I didn’t go through them as extensively as I plan to do with the Ghia. My son told me about The Samba and I’ve been fumbling my way around the site for a few weeks now reading tips and looking for information. There’s a ton of info there if you’re able to find it (old guy new with technology warning) but I’m get there slowly. This is my first attempt at posting. I’m looking for some guidance and wisdom from some of the pro’s out there to answer a few of my questions the first round of many I’m sure. I’m ready to lift the body off and I’ve seen some other post where they’ve installed stiffeners in the doors prior to lifting the body off of the chassis. Is this necessary or will I end up with a Ghia taco if I don’t? I’m building a body dolly right now. Secondly what are the best vendors for new and used parts my wish list is growing exponentially. I’ve got some rust issues with the car but not quite as bad as some of the others I’ve seen on this site so I’m feeling good about that but the further I get into this project the more I find. I plan on doing the body work first but is it better to TIG or MIG weld the body sections together? I’m thinking TIG might create too much heat and cause excessive warpage. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
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xzener
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2006
Posts: 1777
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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MIG welding is the way to go. Spot weld the patch in place, let it cool, weld of few more spots... Rinse/repeat. A couple of the guys here in the Ghia forum are body work miracle workers. Ask questions, they are sure to be answered. Good luck with your build and welcome to the forum.
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My 70 beetle was totaled Now to build the Ghia I always wanted. Rest in peace Ruby, I will miss you. Hello <insert Ghia name here>! |
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Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1048
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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Welcome. Your "I'll get it done somehow" approach is about 80% of getting your project finished so keep at it. I will take a crack at some of your questions but there are many here far more qualified than me. They will be along shortly.
| DILLIGAF08 wrote: |
| ...I’ve seen some other post where they’ve installed stiffeners in the doors prior to lifting the body off of the chassis. Is this necessary or will I end up with a Ghia taco if I don’t? |
With a coupe the door braces are not as important for preventing Mexican food but they will be needed if you have to replace the rockers and heater channels. They will help keep the body aligned. I doubt it is possible to over brace the body when doing rocker/heater channel replacement.
| DILLIGAF08 wrote: |
| ...what are the best vendors for new and used parts my wish list is growing exponentially. |
Karmann Ghia Parts and Restoration/Airhead parts(body and mechanical), Wolfsburg West (parts in common with Beetles), west Coast Metric (rubber parts), The Samba Classifieds (Used and restored OEM parts), CIP1 (Just about anything you need)
| DILLIGAF08 wrote: |
| ...I plan on doing the body work first but is it better to TIG or MIG weld the body sections together? I’m thinking TIG might create too much heat and cause excessive warpage. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks... |
As was stated already, MIG for sheet metal (preferably a low power 110 VAC welder) and TIG for the heavy lifting (tunnel work or chassis repairs)
OH, and More pictures or no more free answers 
You will find we are a picture hungry bunch.
We're all in this together,
Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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| DILLIGAF08 wrote: |
I retired a few years ago and since then I’ve discovered working is all I really know how to do so I purchased my dads old 1967 Ghia for a “little” restoration project. My plan is to go completely though it, that is until I run out of funds or lay down for my permanent dirt nap, whichever comes first. I’ve restored a couple VW’s in my younger days, a 1968 bug and 1960 crew cab (which I still regret selling) so I’ve got a bit of experience with VW’s but I didn’t go through them as extensively as I plan to do with the Ghia.
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Yeah - if you had held onto that 1960 crew cab, you wouldn't have any worries about running out of funds to finance this Karmann Ghia restoration project. 
| DILLIGAF08 wrote: |
...
My son told me about The Samba and I’ve been fumbling my way around the site for a few weeks now reading tips and looking for information. There’s a ton of info there if you’re able to find it (old guy new with technology warning) but I’m get there slowly. This is my first attempt at posting. I’m looking for some guidance and wisdom from some of the pro’s out there to answer a few of my questions the first round of many I’m sure. I’m ready to lift the body off and I’ve seen some other post where they’ve installed stiffeners in the doors prior to lifting the body off of the chassis. Is this necessary or will I end up with a Ghia taco if I don’t? I’m building a body dolly right now. Secondly what are the best vendors for new and used parts my wish list is growing exponentially. I’ve got some rust issues with the car but not quite as bad as some of the others I’ve seen on this site so I’m feeling good about that but the further I get into this project the more I find. I plan on doing the body work first but is it better to TIG or MIG weld the body sections together? I’m thinking TIG might create too much heat and cause excessive warpage. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
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Rust on a project car has been likened to an iceberg, meaning that the rust you can easily see on the outside most likely represents a mere 10% of the total rust.
The other 90% of the rust will be hidden from view beneath layers of prior bodywork of questionable quality and fresh paint.
Although I can't really see for sure in the photos you've already posted, it appears that the lower side trim pieces are missing and their mounting holes filled in.
The rear torsion bar hole cover may also be covered over by previous "repairs".
If so, then your rockers are likely much more rusty than you may have guessed judging only by what you see from the outside.
In fact, ... if the rockers aren't more rusty than you think, then you should consider yourself very lucky to be among the other perhaps 5% of Karmann Ghia owners that found the same thing. 
That's why I would have to agree with Evil_Fiz when he said "I doubt it's possible to over brace the body when doing rocker/heater channel replacement." |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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DILLIGAF08
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2018
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
^^^X2. I think you may find a little unexpected bonus rust.   |
Very nice work, Nicely done! Thanks for posting the link, It gives me inspiration and a overwhelming feel all at the same time. Someday I hope to get there... stay tuned! |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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DILLIGAF08
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2018
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:12 am Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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| Most of my “EXP” is in the field of heavy construction equipment welding and structural fabrication although I have painted a few vehicles and done a bit of body work but would never claim to be either. That said any guidance is greatly appreciated. I’m leaning towards using TIG for repairing most of the body parts. I have read a few post that have stated it’s best not to strip or bead blast the old paint down to completely bare metal is that sound advice? I’m in the process of fabricating the body dolly right now, I’m going to attempt lifting the body off by myself. I’ve decided to go ahead and remove the doors and brace the openings before I lift the body off the chassis, my thinking is to help hold everything approximately where it is all “righty-tighty” just in case there’s more extensive damage than I’m unable to see. |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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Good plan, carry-on.
You should have no problem lifting the shell. I used a come-a-long and lifted my shell several times solo. Plenty of people are concerned with heat build up and warping panels with blasting. Ive blasted plenty of doors, hoods...with out warping anything. I have a cheap big HF kettle blaster. Maybe it is not big enough to develop much heat. Maybe I dont stay in a weak area long enough to warp. To me it more important to get to bare metal than the concern of warping panels. Nothing wrong with chemical paint removal or getting physical and breaking out the 4 inch grinder with an assortment of wire wheels, grinding pads, paint removing discs..... Its actually how I removed most of the body paint on my 68.
I cut a hole in my roof, did not brace and everything went back together well.
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GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1048
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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I toiled over the many paint removal options and eventually settled on chemical paint removal for the body and sand blasting with crushed bottle glass via a siphon feed sand blaster for the chassis and related components, engine tin and peripherals, brackets, and Misc. hardware.
I used CitriStrip paint stripper because it is non toxic and mostly safe on skin. It takes a bit longer to soften the paint than the deadly aircraft stripper but my lungs and skin are still at full capacity. I followed the stripper with a coarse scouring pad and various wire wheels on the angle and die grinders to remove the stubborn paint and rust. Once down to bare metal I treated it with Eastwood After Blast but Kleen Strip Prep & etch or Ospho will work just as well. This process will etch the metal, convert any remaining surface rust, and protect the metal from future corrosion for extended periods so long as it is not directly exposed to the elements. The Zinc Phosphate left behind also promotes primer adhesion in most cases (consult you paint manufacture for compatibility.)
I debated whether to remove the paint down to bare metal or just down to factory primer. I am glad I went to metal because I found some "factory" rust lurking in several spots beneath the paint. I also like the idea of coating the metal with products 40 Yrs. the junior to the original paint.
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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DILLIGAF08
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2018
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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Completed the body dolly today..... I think it will work ok, if my calculations are correct.... I’m not as good as I once was which is what the old lady keeps saying but I make a point of not listening her anyways... but as far as the dolly goes shes got a 50/50 chance which is a lot better odds than the old lady’s got.....stay tuned. I removed the doors today and all the screws came out, I’ll take that as a good sign. We’ll she how she looks when I start the paint removal process. I’m fabricating the door stiffeners tomorrow... I’m thinking about making them removable, like swinging out for future access if needed. We’ll see, not a clue everyday a new day, it’s not just a project it’s an adventure....or a house of horrors....
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Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1048
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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Now there is a dolly with style. Nice work.
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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DILLIGAF08
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2018
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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Now that the door bracing is completed I’m gonna try and get her off tomorrow very slowly by myself. I’m using a floor jack and lifting in tiny increments moving back and forth between front and the rear, nice and easy. I think I’ve got everything disconnected that needs to be,
Master cylinder hoses
Fuel tank and steering column removed
Engine removed
Positive cable to starter
Rear equalizer spring
Have I missed anything?
Disregard any sounds of screeching metal or breaking glass.... stand back non-believers.....
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jwold
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 2088
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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| Did you get all the body mount bolts off? There's two in the rear wheel well area that are usually covered in dirt and grime. Speedometer cable? Not sure what the 'equalizer spring it' maybe that rear anti-sway bar? Door/seat back release cables? (67 only!) Don't think those need to be removed in order to do the body off, but they are an annoyance. I would lift/ break the seal by hand if you can before using a jack to do the separation. A jack will be unforgiving in lifting/bending something. |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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When you brace something, you really brace it, don't you?
Very impressive fabrication work, indeed - I can't wait to see how you progress through the balance of your project. |
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Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1048
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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If you have a come-along and a way to attach it overhead, put a length of steel tubing or a 4x4 across the underside of the gas tank opening and attach the come-along to it. Lift the body via the come-along until it begins to move upward. Use a thin flat screwdriver or a sturdy putty knife to work the body seal loose until the pan starts to brake away. Lift the body a bit more and continue the separation process.
You can employ the same process with a jack by lifting at the rear with a tube/board across the front of the engine compartment just under the firewall.
I used the come-along process on my 70 vert. It had the monkey snot seal but gave way by simply lifting the body and letting the pan drop away slowly.
It most likely goes without saying but safety first. Keep hands and feet OUTSIDE the vehicle at all times
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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DILLIGAF08
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2018
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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LOL good call c21darrel.... I guess there was a reason they always called me “Over Kill”! She came right off though with only one minor malfunction... I kept hearing something but I couldn’t figure out what the heck it was, so I disregarded all of the screeching noise..... OH!! Rear flapper heater cables might’ve gotten “slightly stretched” but other than that no problems the seal separated quite nicely actually. There’s a bit of rust in the fender wells but I believe the pan and rocker panels are salvageable. I guess I start removing paint now and see how many bondo surprises there are. I’ll have to do some research on that first though.... one bite at a time slowly but surly we’ll get there, time and money that’s it!
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c21darrel
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Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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DILLIGAF08
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2018
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1967 Karmann Ghia restoration |
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This is the original color according to the chart it looks like it could be chinchilla or Savannah beige... I think? Maybe? I’m going back to original paint.
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