1967 Karmann Ghia restoration

[Rome]

DILLI, I remember a '67 Coupe rolling shell painted the same red with black wheels in the late 1980's. Owned by an employee (Service Manager?) of a VW dealer in Rockland County, NY. Saw it again in the early '90's when the dealer and some of the staff relocated to upper Westchester Cty NY; was still in the same disassembled condition just like yours. But I do remember at the time that the body was solid, and any possible rust was well fixed. I never saw the car again. Highly unlikely it is the same car. Glad that you are actively working on it now.

[DILLIGAF08]

My dad has had this car just sitting in his back yard for almost 15 years rusting away. He never did do anything to it that I’m aware of so I finally talked him into selling it to me, for top dollar I might add. But that was cool with me I always wanted a Ghia and I was looking for a “little” project. I’m not sure where it originated from but it did have Wyoming plates on it that had expired back in 91 ..... I’d like to get her birth certificate but that looks as though it could be a rather complicated process.

[/u]

[DILLIGAF08]

I went on a little recon mission today in search of the Ghias’ nemesis rust & bondo and as expected I discovered a few “pockets of rust” in areas I didn’t expect, no real surprise there. But here’s the deal....I’ve concluded that I’ve probably forgotten at a minimum 50% of what I once thought I knew so observing the old guy attempting to learn a new trick is not only quite comical but it could be very entertaining as well. Any and all opinions, guidance, hints or shooing me off into the general direction is greatly appreciated.
I’ve been searching the forums here and found several that are related to paint & bodywork and they’re very informative. I’ve been searching for examples on how you would go about indexing body part locations before I start butchering away sections of body. By giving myself reference points I can insure myself I’m able to find the correct location of the new body sections to be welded back in (or as close as I can come to the approximate proximity).

The pan looks like it’s in fairly decent shape to me excluding the one small hole (the only hole visible so far). Would you replace both pan sections for that small amount of damage or would you just weld in a patch and call it good? My thinking is I’m there now why not? I guess it always comes down to the bottom line, money. You can pay me now or you can pay me later..... dealers choice.

The head light area wasn’t quite what I anticipated. To begin with it appeared to me that the PO welded in a head light section. But when I began removing the layers of paint in search of anything metallic it became apparent that the front of head light section had yellow paint from paint job #2 along with a heaping helping of bondo. And as you can see it was welded on with brazing rod, either that or I’ve hit the mother load, Eureka! That’ll help me buy new floor pans! I seriously doubt I’ll be able to find a complete fender assembly new or used so I’m assuming my only option would be to piece in a headlight and turn signal sections and then do my best to piece in the rest of the fender from there back.

The area underneath the Badge script on the right side was obvious from the get-go hopefully the front fender section will go high enough to cover the damage. Both rear panels will need to be replaced also. Any suggestions from The Samba Family mentors?
Thanks.

[sputnick60]

I kept the original floor pans on my ‘66 but like yours there were a few holes that had to be welded shut. The reproduction pans are not shaped 100% correctly so its seems the 80/20 rule should be applied. The pans you have look 80% good so it would take 20% effort to fix them. There are half pan sections available that you can splice in but if the rust pitting is stabilised and properly painted it would still be a good result, in your example, just welding the holes.

Regarding the body sections, oftentimes they appear on the samba classified advertisements but there are often other sources. If you search online for specific pieces you can uncover plenty of them. Headlight bucket and surrounds are reproduced to a reasonable standard as are most pieces below the waistline of the car. For particular bits you can put a WTB (want to buy) advertisement in the classifieds here for free! There is fun in searching out the bits you need.

I’m enjoying your thread so far. ‘67 is a challenging model year with lots of one year only parts. I hope to see you keeping up with the journey, it’s going to be a ride!

Nicholas
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'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Mellow Yellow 74]

Wagner Blechteil in Germany sells the panel with the badge recess.
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1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon)

[DILLIGAF08]

Ghia rotisserie

[Evil_Fiz]

^^^ GREAT I've been working on mine for two months and you crank one out in under two posts
Nice work. What size tubing is that, 2" x .120?

-----
Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68

See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted

[DILLIGAF08]

I used 2 1/2” x .180 (3/16) for the frame
2” x .120 for the horizontals
2” x 1/4 for the extension.
Welded together with MIG .035 wire
2” mechinal tubing with 5/16 wall and then I inserted that with a piece of 1 1/4” x 5/16 wall. (Pieces I had laying around)
Super heavy I know (just call me over kill) but I had a few drops from the fabrication of the dolly. It worked out rather nicely... I just rolled the end pieces of the rotisserie up to the dolly stands made the connections then removed the dolly. After talking with you about plans for a rotisserie and seeing what you had in mind I had an epiphany one night! Thanks for your help Emil!

Stripping her down now and have started my search for the body components I will be needing. Do you any preferences on suppliers for body panels? KGPR, M&T MFG., Mid American, CIP1?

[DILLIGAF08]

[Evil_Fiz]

[c21darrel]

Nice work on the rotisserie, that will make life simpler. No way I would replace original pans in that condition, just repair it. Making great progress!!
This car looks to be in better condition than when I had originally commented. For body panels ... Some people like to use new replacement parts others prefer welding in pieces off original cars ... other than sources already mentioned … search the classifieds for anyone parting a ghia out.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php...arting+out
_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[DILLIGAF08]

Thanks for the information... I’ve made a few attempts at cruising through the classified ads but I really haven’t figured it all out yet... used is definitely an option, thank you for posting any and all links. Eventually I get there it just takes me a little longer. I’ve heard that it’s better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that your stupid than to open it and remove all doubt but I’ve also heard that the only stupid questions are the ones you didn’t ask.... so I’ll fire off a few more volleys.

#1. I went to the http://www.wagner-blechteile.de web site and from what I can see by looking at the pics the products do look like very good quality (thank you Emil) but here’s my question, do they have a web site dedicated for us English speaking Gringos? I might remember how to count to ten in German but that would be about the extent of it and with my Spanish I only knew enough to get myself drunk and laid (or in a fight). With all this new technology isn’t there a button somewhere I can hit for google translate or something?

#2 If I’m able to locate any of the used body parts I need are there years that the Karmann Ghia body styles are basically the same? I’ve read and been told that the 67 Ghias are basically one hit wonders but aren’t there other years that body styles and pieces are interchangeable with the 67 models?

[KGCoupe]

[Evil_Fiz]

[c21darrel]

[DILLIGAF08]

When the snow started flying last winter any and all of my half-hearted attempts at working on the Ghia came to a screeching halt, simply because there’s no heater in the shop (and that’s a good enough reason for this old man). Fast forward to this spring and summer, and it’s time to take advantage of warmer temperatures to take care of things that began piling up on the ranch whilst I sat on my back side by the wood stove. Now I’ve got some time to give my neglected Ghia some love.
Where to begin? Not a freaking clue, so I ordered parts!
After the arrival of body panels, and tools, I logged back onto The Samba and started reading the “How to Threads” looking for aforementioned clue. I came up with a plan of attack. I’ve decided to start on the right side of the vehicle, for no other reason than I think it’s going to be the “easiest”, (laughter) because the left side of the headlight area is a complete disaster and I’m still trying to figure out how to repair it.

My plan is to cut off as little of the original panel as possible, just the damage, then fit and cut a new panel to fit.

Originally, my plan was to replace only the exterior skin on the rocker panel, not because of rust, because of the amount of damage and bondo. However, after I removed the paint and all of the bondo, I discovered a bit of rust (sound familiar?). Therefore the original plan is in need of a revision, “Man plans, God laughs”. I’ll remove part of the outer skin and take a peek inside to see how much more needs to be done.

On the rear fender (front) the plan is to cut off only areas that must be removed, then cut to fit a new panel.

Same process on the rear of the rear fender, however..... the new panel doesn’t have a bumper mounting hole drilled in it, so I think I’ll cut the bad areas out and leave the original hole.
After searching several of the “How to Threads”, I was unable to find any on how to go about indexing the body pieces before removal. My theory is I need to limit the amount of movement, and distortion that will occur during the removal process. As I have already discovered, damage may be more extensive than I thought, I may need to replace more than originally planned. Once the cutting and removal process begins there’s no turning back (and no mulligans).
I’ve read in several of the threads that some guys will just install the body back on the chassis if it comes down to this sort of situation. However, this “Old Man” is a one man show (not to mention lazy). I’m thinking there’s got to be a better way, other than taking the car on and off the chassis multiple times or putting the doors on and off again during the restoration process while attempting to fit the new panels in the correct location. I’ve decided to come up with some sort of a “jig” to try and eliminate some of that extra work.
So I had an epiphany, and this is what I came up with. Will it work? No freakin idea. Feel free to critique if my theory is flawed. Any and all suggestions are always welcomed.

[Evil_Fiz]

That looks bad-ass.
My only reservation is that it may instill false confidence because it's more rigid than the chassis/pan combination. You probably want to do at least one final check/test fit on the pan before final welding. This will give you a chance to test real-world gaps and alignment. (but I could also be completely wrong)

...a big on you fabrication and welding skills.

-----
Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68

See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted

[DILLIGAF08]

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time, and today I took a little nibble out of the Ghia. Why just a little nibble? Because this is a path I’ve never ventured down, so instead of the just rip and tear method, for this novice/body man, I’d be better off taking the easy as you go route.

I believe the inside of rocker panel is salvageable, with some blasting. I did notice on the rear section there appears to be a stiffer plate added for the jack. So this rookie is assuming you cut it off and then reinstall on the new rockers because the one I purchased doesn’t have it?

How were the door jamb areas finished off? After the panel was welded in did they originally just lead in this area? While scraping it the area seams to be kinda soft, or was it just welded and smoothed off?

I gave a cheep spot weld cutter bit a shot today. I got about a half dozen spot welds cut before it gave up the ghost. I take it your better off spending a little extra cash and going with a Blair cutter set?

[Brandonsonfire]

Impressive fab work.....keep us updated!!

[DILLIGAF08]

Took another little bite today, it wasn’t pleasant to the palate. Can that rusted area even be purchased? I‘m not seeing it in the catalog. It’s behind the lower portion of the door hinge pillar and looks like it’s on the outside of the foot well support. Is this a improvise with a patch and weld it in repairs? LITTLE HELP?