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Building New classic manx 52
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manxnc53
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

So im sure you know what im doing, becuse i sure dont. I got in touch with this guy in the outer banks, through manx to help me with my car. We talked at length about issues building a dune buggy. He was saying his first buggy had a factory beetle suspension. Which made the car teeth rattling rough on the road. What he did to fix this was reindex the rear bars, obviously, and removing some of the front leafs.

As you can understand. I only want to do this once. So who among you knows the magic number or even a thread about softening a beetle suspension. I know there is a calculator for the rear bars on zenseeker.com or such. But it doesnt talk about the front leafs.

build specs. 1972 Pan, shortend 14.5 inches
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Gary0302
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

manxnc53,

There are certainly several points of view on softening stock suspensions, but I can tell you what worked for me. The front end for my build was purchased brand new from Mid America (ball joint); nothing was done to it to soften the stock stiffness. Standard VW/stock type shocks were installed (new from NAPA), but the main adjustment is that front tires are only inflated to 16 psi, 215/60R 15 93T Cooper Cobra Radial GT with 15 x 7 rims. My gas tank is located under the hood, which also can influence suspension stiffness/softness in the front.

The rear is IRS, standard VW/stock type shocks (new from NAPA), no special indexing, but once again the main adjustment is that the rear tires are only inflated to 22 psi, 275/60R 15 Cooper Cobra Radial GT with 15 x 8 rims.

I completed my build back in 2007. I am very happy with the feel of the suspension, and I don't think I am getting any kind of unusual tire wear. Others have driven my buggy, and they also feel that the suspension is comfortable.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

X2 on tire pressure. I run 12 psi front and 23 rear.

Re-indexing the rear torsions will change the ride height only. It will do nothing to change the softness of the ride.

On our Buggy on the front I lower it with a full set of leaves. It rides harsher now because it hits the bump stops sooner.
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manxnc53
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

Ok ill take that, however when i flat towed the car she bounced on here tires. Granted its a rolling frame and a body, IE no engine, seat trans ect. I’ve got the front tires at 8 PSI and rears at 10 PSI. The front suspension gives a little when i stand on it, while the rear won’t budget untile i bounce up and down.

I allso have Gas Adjust KYB all around. I was told i should run the cheapest hyrdo shocks i could find.
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167luckycharm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

Hi! I've got #60 of your car, essentially its younger sister. My front beam has only one center adjuster welded in the center of the bottom beam, all torsion spring leaves are intact, (not cut). However, the top set of leaves are tack-welded together at 4" intervals along its entire length, each weld about 1" long, done with E7018 arc welding rod. The center section of that stack of leaves (now a sway bar) has been ground down so that it is cylindrical and spins freely inside the square hole of the center block of the upper beam. The grub screw was ground down and re-installed to plug the hole. I did index the bottom center mount to lower the front end, but in retrospect, I should have left it in the neutral position. Just one set of torsion leaves is not enough to carry the weight of the front end with a full tank of gas and two passengers in the car. Next beam will be aluminum with shock towers with top and bottom adjusters, cranked down to lower the car 2", no bump stops installed.
Good Luck! John Mr .009
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oprn
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

167luckycharm wrote:
Hi! I've got #60 of your car, essentially its younger sister. My front beam has only one center adjuster welded in the center of the bottom beam, all torsion spring leaves are intact, (not cut). However, the top set of leaves are tack-welded together at 4" intervals along its entire length, each weld about 1" long, done with E7018 arc welding rod. The center section of that stack of leaves (now a sway bar) has been ground down so that it is cylindrical and spins freely inside the square hole of the center block of the upper beam. The grub screw was ground down and re-installed to plug the hole. I did index the bottom center mount to lower the front end, but in retrospect, I should have left it in the neutral position. Just one set of torsion leaves is not enough to carry the weight of the front end with a full tank of gas and two passengers in the car. Next beam will be aluminum with shock towers with top and bottom adjusters, cranked down to lower the car 2", no bump stops installed.
Good Luck! John Mr .009

Thanks for the first hand experience with the front beam! Another member here did something very similar and has since regretted it. I was going to do that too but now I won't. I will raise it back up a bit and pull some leaves instead. Presently the front wheels get air time on the bigger bumps on the highway. That did not happen with the front end at stock height. This is not at all safe, if it happened in a hard corner at speed the outcome would not be pretty!

Manxnc53 don't judge the rear ride until you get that engine in. It will change the rear ride completely. And yes your KYBs are definitely part of the problem!
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jspbtown
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

With a pair of Avis style adjusters and pre-loading one set of leaves, correct "cheap" shocks, correct tire pressure, and a common sense expectation of ride you should be all set.

Can't make a beauty queen out of a pig. If you want crazy amounts of smooth travel you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
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manxnc53
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

Currently the cars rear suspension is stock, except for Sway-A-Way racing short bars. There cut down to IIRC, 20.1mm. So they are low profile and retians the spring rate as the cars original 27mm long bars. The front is all stock except for the tweeds 3 1/2” lift spindles. Iv got 31x10.5 in back and i think 28’s in front. The rake seems a little high in the front. I might get Atomwerks 1” or 2” lift spring plates, to lift the back up a bit. That is if thouse yahoos at Atomwerks can get there act together.

167luckycharm, I would of mig’ed them welds. Personally, I hate stick welding. To much smock, spatter, chipping slag and god damn slag inclusion.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

jspbtown wrote:
With a pair of Avis style adjusters and pre-loading one set of leaves, correct "cheap" shocks, correct tire pressure, and a common sense expectation of ride you should be all set.

Can't make a beauty queen out of a pig. If you want crazy amounts of smooth travel you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Did the preload thing and to be honest I really can't tell the difference. I think you are right about the pig comment!
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cbeck
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

The preload only 1 adjuster thing did make a small, but noticeable difference on my wider beam with 2.25 x 1 arms. Probably a sweet spot in there somewhere, more may not be better.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

Well...

Avis adjusters up front and small double leafs removed, to lower and soften front and GAS shocks which was a mistake, should have use generic oil only shocks and about 14 PSI tire pressure...

On rear, preload readjusted one spline on rear to set it lower for less camber and gas shocks on rear, which seem to be ok... Tire pressure about 18 psi...

Also caster shims under front beam to improve caster and less road wander and 3/4 anti-sway bars front and rear, car was built to "handle".....

I try to stay out of pot holes that one needs a road map to find the exit of...

Dale
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calebmelvin
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

How’s your build coming? I have number 54 Cool
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manxnc53
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

This thing I have to do five days a week just keeps getting in the way, I once heard it's called "work" what ever the hell that is.

I'm currently hung up on doing the tail lights. I have a set of 4 1/2" round LED lights. There submersible trailer lights. My original idea was to drill two holes in the back fiberglass to flush mount them. How ever I'm afraid that the light will look goofy leaning back and out being how the body flows. I really, really, really don't want to do this twice. Personally I think these lights are the best option for off road. Light weight, water proof, cheap, off the shelf and bright as possible. I'd just hate to drill holes in my new body to realize I don't like them there afterwards.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

manxnc53 wrote:
This thing I have to do five days a week just keeps getting in the way, I once heard it's called "work" what ever the hell that is.

I'm currently hung up on doing the tail lights. I have a set of 4 1/2" round LED lights. There submersible trailer lights. My original idea was to drill two holes in the back fiberglass to flush mount them. How ever I'm afraid that the light will look goofy leaning back and out being how the body flows. I really, really, really don't want to do this twice. Personally I think these lights are the best option for off road. Light weight, water proof, cheap, off the shelf and bright as possible. I'd just hate to drill holes in my new body to realize I don't like them there afterwards.


Hey! Thanks for the update! Do you have any photos?

What I would do is put bug tail lights on the body and then a second set or round ones on the back bumper or up on the roll bar. That way it isn’t permanent but adds more light!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

Some ideas from the gallery.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=234371&highlight=tail+lights
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=702369&highlight=tail+lights
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calebmelvin
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

I was thinking something like this but with a set of bug tails on the body:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Maybe mount only two on the underside of the bumper, closer in...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

Here we go. I did some quick and dirty Photoshop but you get the idea:

Option 1 -

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Option 2 -

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Option 3 -

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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manxnc53
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

Could you photo shop the round LED lights to the back of my car? I lack the knowledge and capability to do it my self.

I have had time to work on it, my next step is to remount the body so it's more better. I'm cursed as a perfectionist.

Here's some pics though.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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calebmelvin
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

I like the white! Do you have a photo of the lights you want to use?
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manxnc53
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Building New classic manx 52 Reply with quote

No I do not, but! This is basically them right here.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/truck-lig...01EALw_wcB

I'm just worried that the lights might look goofy on the back of the body. Being the lights would be slightly aimed up and out, instead of straight back.
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