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Lincolnlife
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2018
Posts: 26
Location: Winston salem
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 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: Fan bolt |
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Im trying to take off my altenator because on of the wires in side has became disconnected. Was just going to pull it off solder them back. I cant for the life of me get the fan bolt inside the shroud out. It is so tight it broke the key off the pully on front. Is it special thread? I can get to it and can crank on it but its stuck. I took a pic. Any help id love.
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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Jam a large screw driver into the blades while you have it on the ground and use it as leverage. It will take some effort as it’s supoosed to be torqued to 50lbs or so and has probably corroded.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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ghia4mea
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2007
Posts: 478
Location: Largo Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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This is no help to you but my Ghia had the same problem. It took a huge breaker bar and a destroyed alternator before the bolt would come loose.
We first destroyed the key then the alt. My mechanic (a retired vw mechanic) had never seen one so bad. |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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Is the engine out? If so, use an impact gun to loosen the nut. This will lessen the need to hold the fan/alt in place, damaging one or both of them.
Some good penetrant (liquid wrench, not WD-40) can help. |
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Lincolnlife
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2018
Posts: 26
Location: Winston salem
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| No its in the car. I need a good way to hold the front as well. Like i said the key sheard off so the pully just turns on the alternator just turns. I will try the impach. Thought about welding a nut on the alternator shaft but idk if that would fry it. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| Lincolnlife wrote: |
| I need a good way to hold the front as well. Like i said the key sheard off so the pully just turns on the alternator just turns. I will try the impach. Thought about welding a nut on the alternator shaft but idk if that would fry it. |
Get another woodruff key, put the pulley back on, and use a screwdriver jammed in the slot against an alternator bolt like when you tighten a fan belt.
That big nut should - and I say "should" - be only torqued to 43 ft lbs. But many don't understand stuff like that !!!
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Lincolnlife
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2018
Posts: 26
Location: Winston salem
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| I will get a key. When i did the jamed screw driver it started to bend the pully. This things tight. Lol |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| Lincolnlife wrote: |
| I will get a key. When i did the jamed screw driver it started to bend the pully. This things tight. Lol |
I understand. Some previous owner could've used red Loctite and a zillion foot pounds on it. Would be really sad if a real mechanic did something like that.
You might need to remove the fan shroud and the alternator/fan from that and secure in a bench vise, and sacrifice the bad alternator or the pulley anyway.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Lincolnlife
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2018
Posts: 26
Location: Winston salem
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| Ok. I saw 2 bolts on left and right of the shroud. Is there any on the back? Feel like there should be a few holding it on |
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bugheadred
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2003
Posts: 666
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| Sharp64 wrote: |
| Jam a large screw driver into the blades while you have it on the ground and use it as leverage. It will take some effort as it’s supoosed to be torqued to 50lbs or so and has probably corroded. |
you will bend the fins DONT DO IT |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| Sharp64 wrote: |
| Jam a large screw driver into the blades while you have it on the ground and use it as leverage. It will take some effort as it’s supoosed to be torqued to 50lbs or so and has probably corroded. |
you will bend the fins DONT DO IT |
I’ve used this method several times and it works. But the unit has to be out of the car.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine
Last edited by Sharp64 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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anthracitedub
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 3241
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| Yeah, don’t ever jam a screw driver in anything...get a little bottle torch and heat the nut, it’ll come off... I just got done taking two of these off of very rusty, nasty looking 6v generators and I’m recovering from broken hand surgery...still got them off with a ratchet. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| Lincolnlife wrote: |
| Ok. I saw 2 bolts on left and right of the shroud. Is there any on the back? Feel like there should be a few holding it on |
Disclaimer: I've only worked on VW engines with generators....
For fan shroud removal: Yes, two (originally) slot head 6.0mm x 1.0mm screws on each side (called cheese head screws). The alternator strap holds the alternator to the stand securely, that needs to be loosened and slid forward to clear the stand. If a doghouse cooler, the tins on the front (hidden side) must be removed (10mm wrench). And the accelerator cable needs to be removed from the metal tube through the fan shroud. Plus, if you have a thermostat attached, that must be removed from the thermostat rod. Plus all the wires, so label those (of course disconnect the battery negative cable first). I've typically also had to remove the carburetor. And if attempting this with engine still in the VW, mark the lid brackets and remove the engine lid.
I've found that using an impact wrench just makes it spin if the shaft isn't secured somehow.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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bugheadred
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2003
Posts: 666
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| Sharp64 wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Sharp64 wrote: |
| Jam a large screw driver into the blades while you have it on the ground and use it as leverage. It will take some effort as it’s supoosed to be torqued to 50lbs or so and has probably corroded. |
you will bend the fins DONT DO IT |
I’ve used this method several times and it works. But the unit has to be out of the car. |
ok so you have done it before (is it the right way to do it NO ) why would you give advice to someone looking for help ? unless it is the way you should do it and maybe cause damage to the fan also . then he will need a fan and an alt. |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| Sharp64 wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Sharp64 wrote: |
| Jam a large screw driver into the blades while you have it on the ground and use it as leverage. It will take some effort as it’s supoosed to be torqued to 50lbs or so and has probably corroded. |
you will bend the fins DONT DO IT |
I’ve used this method several times and it works. But the unit has to be out of the car. |
ok so you have done it before (is it the right way to do it NO ) why would you give advice to someone looking for help ? unless it is the way you should do it and maybe cause damage to the fan also . then he will need a fan and an alt. |
The way I have done it I have yet to damage a fan. But as I said it has to be out of the car. Not everyone has a torch or impact wrench. You make do.
And if I have to make a choice between a $20 fan or a $350 generator....
What’s your method besides critiquing mine? Let’s not be negative.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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bugheadred
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2003
Posts: 666
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| 350.00 for a alt? where do you get them ? |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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90mm 12volt generators aren’t cheap. $250 plus another hundred for a rebuild. I also have a second that I bought already rebuilt for over $400.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine
Last edited by Sharp64 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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bugheadred
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2003
Posts: 666
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| Sharp64 wrote: |
90mm 12volt generators aren’t cheap. $250 plus another hundred for a rebuild. I also have a second that I bought already rebuilt for over $400. |
wow he don't even have a gen. if you would read it is an alt and it don't matter sticking a screw driver in the fan wont work and it is just a stupid thing to do im done |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| Sharp64 wrote: |
90mm 12volt generators aren’t cheap. $250 plus another hundred for a rebuild. I also have a second that I bought already rebuilt for over $400. |
wow he don't even have a gen. if you would read it is an alt and it don't matter sticking a screw driver in the fan wont work and it is just a stupid thing to do im done |
They are both held on with a 30mm nut on the fan side aren’t they?
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26324
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Fan bolt |
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Remove the alternator/fan assembly from the engine (just saying "out of the car" isn't really good enough. it needs to be removed from the fan shroud) and the fan can be held in such a way to allow the NUT (it ain't a bolt) to be removed.
The proper torque is 40 to 47 foot pounds - that's not a terrible lot. Now if someone used an impact gun to put the nut on then it might be a lot more than that. But that is overkill, and I take the time use a torque wrench and do it right.
Now, trying to get the nut loose when the alternator/generator is still installed on the engine? Uh, don't bother, it's not supposed to be attempted that way.
_________________
Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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