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Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
asiab3 wrote:
How do you time a bug with a strobe light then? Asking for a friend....

Robbie


connect + directly to the + wire on the generator....like it's been done for decades....


Ding ding ding! Winner! Glad you still like to play my games. :kissyface:

Robbie


How easy and safe is this to do on an aircooled Vanagon? I know the alternator is more accessible than the one on a bay, but don't know how likely one is to accidentally ground the clamp out when attaching it to the AC Vanagon alternator.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:11 am    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
How easy and safe is this to do on an aircooled Vanagon? I know the alternator is more accessible than the one on a bay, but don't know how likely one is to accidentally ground the clamp out when attaching it to the AC Vanagon alternator.


No idea; I've only ever hooked it to the coil positive Wink

The Vanagon alternator posts are fairly buried under the air cleaner… I'm not sure how easy that would be. It would be easy to rig something useful, but with electronic ignition how often do you check the timing dynamically anyway?

Robbie
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
How easy and safe is this to do on an aircooled Vanagon? I know the alternator is more accessible than the one on a bay, but don't know how likely one is to accidentally ground the clamp out when attaching it to the AC Vanagon alternator.


No idea; I've only ever hooked it to the coil positive Wink

The Vanagon alternator posts are fairly buried under the air cleaner… I'm not sure how easy that would be. It would be easy to rig something useful, but with electronic ignition how often do you check the timing dynamically anyway?

Robbie


Not all AC Vanagons have electronic ignition
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sodbuster
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

Arn't we talking an 80 air cooled Vanagon? If so arn't the alternators mounted just like they are on the bay buses with type IV motors? Under the tin?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

sodbuster wrote:
Arn't we talking an 80 air cooled Vanagon? If so arn't the alternators mounted just like they are on the bay buses with type IV motors? Under the tin?


The mounting is different because the fan to supply air to the heating system is mounted on the alternator.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one. Laughing


On an aircooled vanagon:

Positive clip to back of alternator is easily done, with air cleaner on.

As for the static timing light, you never got a signal Because you had it run between the + and - on the coil, you should have clipped the alligator of the static test light to the negative on the coil (terminal 1) and then GROUNDED the test light. I only skimmed but at least one post made me think you grounded the test light to the 15 terminal. That’s why you got no signal static.

Fun fact, Cali spec vanagon do NOT time to 28* very well. There’s a few extra steps to make it factory happy and pass smog requirements.

For the record, a set of standard 8-14’ jumper cables can be run from the passenger front seat of a vanagon to the back for a test light.

Or a portable jump box.

Maybe these two clear as mud pics will answer some questions:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

My power of observations shows that the forward end of the alternator isn't all that accessible with everything installed Sad

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one. Laughing


On an aircooled vanagon:

Positive clip to back of alternator is easily done, with air cleaner on.

As for the static timing light, you never got a signal Because you had it run between the + and - on the coil, you should have clipped the alligator of the static test light to the negative on the coil (terminal 1) and then GROUNDED the test light. I only skimmed but at least one post made me think you grounded the test light to the 15 terminal. That’s why you got no signal static.

Fun fact, Cali spec vanagon do NOT time to 28* very well. There’s a few extra steps to make it factory happy and pass smog requirements.

For the record, a set of standard 8-14’ jumper cables can be run from the passenger front seat of a vanagon to the back for a test light.

Or a portable jump box.

Maybe these two clear as mud pics will answer some questions:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And you were observing what exactly on THAT day?

Glass houses. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

Has anyone suggested checking the charging system on this thing? I agree that it should work fine connected to the coil + lead.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
sodbuster wrote:
Arn't we talking an 80 air cooled Vanagon? If so arn't the alternators mounted just like they are on the bay buses with type IV motors? Under the tin?


The mounting is different because the fan to supply air to the heating system is mounted on the alternator.


Been awhile since I stuck my nose into a air cooled Vanagon engine bay. was not sure actually. Question
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one. Laughing




Let's be fair here, the OP is asking a Vanagon question on a Bus forum.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

WhirledTraveller wrote:
Stuartzickefoose wrote:
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one. Laughing




Let's be fair here, the OP is asking a Vanagon question on a Bus forum.


Go try to ask any aircooled engine related question in the vanagon forums, not one bit of help exists. Everyone gets pointed back to the gossip girls here in the bay forum. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

WhirledTraveller wrote:
Stuartzickefoose wrote:
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one. Laughing




Let's be fair here, the OP is asking a Vanagon question on a Bus forum.


Lets be fair here, know what you're talking about before commenting.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

Anyways, so it's an intermittent issue. I drove it fine two days ago, about 20 miles.

Today it won't start, just cranks. I have no spark at my cap if I remove the center plug wire and hold it in the hole to see the spark. I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

74superTN wrote:
I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right?

Does a test light connected between the two blink when cranking?, if not the points are dirty or somehow not making contact.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
WhirledTraveller wrote:
Stuartzickefoose wrote:
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one. Laughing




Let's be fair here, the OP is asking a Vanagon question on a Bus forum.


Go try to ask any aircooled engine related question in the vanagon forums, not one bit of help exists. Everyone gets pointed back to the gossip girls here in the bay forum. Rolling Eyes


But that doesn't mean the people here are up on all the eccentricities of the Vanagon layout. I know that the forward side of the Vanagon alternator is pretty well hidden but couldn't have told you that the purge hose for the carbon canister was one of the things in the way of accessing the B+ post.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
74superTN wrote:
I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right?

Does a test light connected between the two blink when cranking?, if not the points are dirty or somehow not making contact.


Ok so, a test light between the - and + while cranking does nothing except for when it FIRST tries to crank. It will slightly and very lowly blink on and off once and then never again.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

74superTN wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
74superTN wrote:
I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right?

Does a test light connected between the two blink when cranking?, if not the points are dirty or somehow not making contact.


Ok so, a test light between the - and + while cranking does nothing except for when it FIRST tries to crank. It will slightly and very lowly blink on and off once and then never again.

OK, since you mention a condenser then you must have points, rip a postage stamp scrap from a clean brown paper bag and pinch it between the point contacts (you'll have to turn the engine until they close), slide it back and forth to clean and polish the contacts. Don't get any oily fingerprints or grease from the rubbing block on the paper, and check for paper fibers remaining when you pull it out from between.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

74superTN wrote:
Anyways, so it's an intermittent issue. I drove it fine two days ago, about 20 miles.

Today it won't start, just cranks. I have no spark at my cap if I remove the center plug wire and hold it in the hole to see the spark. I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right?


You said earlier you had a Petronix distributor. Now you say you have a condenser. Which is it? If you are attaching a condenser to a Petronix that might be a cause of your weirdness. Incidentally a condenser is a capacitor, not a coil, so it should measure zero ohms.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled Reply with quote

WhirledTraveller wrote:
74superTN wrote:
Anyways, so it's an intermittent issue. I drove it fine two days ago, about 20 miles.

Today it won't start, just cranks. I have no spark at my cap if I remove the center plug wire and hold it in the hole to see the spark. I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right?


You said earlier you had a Petronix distributor. Now you say you have a condenser. Which is it? If you are attaching a condenser to a Petronix that might be a cause of your weirdness. Incidentally a condenser is a capacitor, not a coil, so it should measure zero ohms.


The condenser will initially register low ohms but its resistance will climb rapidly until it read infinite ohms.
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