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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50257
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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asiab3 wrote: |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
asiab3 wrote: |
How do you time a bug with a strobe light then? Asking for a friend....
Robbie |
connect + directly to the + wire on the generator....like it's been done for decades.... |
Ding ding ding! Winner! Glad you still like to play my games. :kissyface:
Robbie |
How easy and safe is this to do on an aircooled Vanagon? I know the alternator is more accessible than the one on a bay, but don't know how likely one is to accidentally ground the clamp out when attaching it to the AC Vanagon alternator. |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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Wildthings wrote: |
How easy and safe is this to do on an aircooled Vanagon? I know the alternator is more accessible than the one on a bay, but don't know how likely one is to accidentally ground the clamp out when attaching it to the AC Vanagon alternator. |
No idea; I've only ever hooked it to the coil positive
The Vanagon alternator posts are fairly buried under the air cleaner… I'm not sure how easy that would be. It would be easy to rig something useful, but with electronic ignition how often do you check the timing dynamically anyway?
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50257
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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asiab3 wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
How easy and safe is this to do on an aircooled Vanagon? I know the alternator is more accessible than the one on a bay, but don't know how likely one is to accidentally ground the clamp out when attaching it to the AC Vanagon alternator. |
No idea; I've only ever hooked it to the coil positive
The Vanagon alternator posts are fairly buried under the air cleaner… I'm not sure how easy that would be. It would be easy to rig something useful, but with electronic ignition how often do you check the timing dynamically anyway?
Robbie |
Not all AC Vanagons have electronic ignition |
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sodbuster Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004 Posts: 1082 Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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Arn't we talking an 80 air cooled Vanagon? If so arn't the alternators mounted just like they are on the bay buses with type IV motors? Under the tin? |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50257
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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sodbuster wrote: |
Arn't we talking an 80 air cooled Vanagon? If so arn't the alternators mounted just like they are on the bay buses with type IV motors? Under the tin? |
The mounting is different because the fan to supply air to the heating system is mounted on the alternator. |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:16 am Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one.
On an aircooled vanagon:
Positive clip to back of alternator is easily done, with air cleaner on.
As for the static timing light, you never got a signal Because you had it run between the + and - on the coil, you should have clipped the alligator of the static test light to the negative on the coil (terminal 1) and then GROUNDED the test light. I only skimmed but at least one post made me think you grounded the test light to the 15 terminal. That’s why you got no signal static.
Fun fact, Cali spec vanagon do NOT time to 28* very well. There’s a few extra steps to make it factory happy and pass smog requirements.
For the record, a set of standard 8-14’ jumper cables can be run from the passenger front seat of a vanagon to the back for a test light.
Or a portable jump box.
Maybe these two clear as mud pics will answer some questions:
_________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50257
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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My power of observations shows that the forward end of the alternator isn't all that accessible with everything installed
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one.
On an aircooled vanagon:
Positive clip to back of alternator is easily done, with air cleaner on.
As for the static timing light, you never got a signal Because you had it run between the + and - on the coil, you should have clipped the alligator of the static test light to the negative on the coil (terminal 1) and then GROUNDED the test light. I only skimmed but at least one post made me think you grounded the test light to the 15 terminal. That’s why you got no signal static.
Fun fact, Cali spec vanagon do NOT time to 28* very well. There’s a few extra steps to make it factory happy and pass smog requirements.
For the record, a set of standard 8-14’ jumper cables can be run from the passenger front seat of a vanagon to the back for a test light.
Or a portable jump box.
Maybe these two clear as mud pics will answer some questions:
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And you were observing what exactly on THAT day?
Glass houses. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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Has anyone suggested checking the charging system on this thing? I agree that it should work fine connected to the coil + lead. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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sodbuster Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004 Posts: 1082 Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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Wildthings wrote: |
sodbuster wrote: |
Arn't we talking an 80 air cooled Vanagon? If so arn't the alternators mounted just like they are on the bay buses with type IV motors? Under the tin? |
The mounting is different because the fan to supply air to the heating system is mounted on the alternator. |
Been awhile since I stuck my nose into a air cooled Vanagon engine bay. was not sure actually. |
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WhirledTraveller Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2008 Posts: 1399 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one.
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Let's be fair here, the OP is asking a Vanagon question on a Bus forum. _________________ 1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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WhirledTraveller wrote: |
Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one.
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Let's be fair here, the OP is asking a Vanagon question on a Bus forum. |
Go try to ask any aircooled engine related question in the vanagon forums, not one bit of help exists. Everyone gets pointed back to the gossip girls here in the bay forum. _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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74superTN Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2007 Posts: 675 Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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WhirledTraveller wrote: |
Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one.
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Let's be fair here, the OP is asking a Vanagon question on a Bus forum. |
Lets be fair here, know what you're talking about before commenting. _________________ 73 Thing
80 Vanagon Westy |
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74superTN Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2007 Posts: 675 Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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Anyways, so it's an intermittent issue. I drove it fine two days ago, about 20 miles.
Today it won't start, just cranks. I have no spark at my cap if I remove the center plug wire and hold it in the hole to see the spark. I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right? _________________ 73 Thing
80 Vanagon Westy |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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74superTN wrote: |
I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right? |
Does a test light connected between the two blink when cranking?, if not the points are dirty or somehow not making contact. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50257
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
WhirledTraveller wrote: |
Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
The observation skills of some forum people lead me to believe they shouldn’t use a computer, drive a car or fix one.
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Let's be fair here, the OP is asking a Vanagon question on a Bus forum. |
Go try to ask any aircooled engine related question in the vanagon forums, not one bit of help exists. Everyone gets pointed back to the gossip girls here in the bay forum. |
But that doesn't mean the people here are up on all the eccentricities of the Vanagon layout. I know that the forward side of the Vanagon alternator is pretty well hidden but couldn't have told you that the purge hose for the carbon canister was one of the things in the way of accessing the B+ post. |
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74superTN Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2007 Posts: 675 Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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busdaddy wrote: |
74superTN wrote: |
I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right? |
Does a test light connected between the two blink when cranking?, if not the points are dirty or somehow not making contact. |
Ok so, a test light between the - and + while cranking does nothing except for when it FIRST tries to crank. It will slightly and very lowly blink on and off once and then never again. _________________ 73 Thing
80 Vanagon Westy |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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74superTN wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
74superTN wrote: |
I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right? |
Does a test light connected between the two blink when cranking?, if not the points are dirty or somehow not making contact. |
Ok so, a test light between the - and + while cranking does nothing except for when it FIRST tries to crank. It will slightly and very lowly blink on and off once and then never again. |
OK, since you mention a condenser then you must have points, rip a postage stamp scrap from a clean brown paper bag and pinch it between the point contacts (you'll have to turn the engine until they close), slide it back and forth to clean and polish the contacts. Don't get any oily fingerprints or grease from the rubbing block on the paper, and check for paper fibers remaining when you pull it out from between. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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WhirledTraveller Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2008 Posts: 1399 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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74superTN wrote: |
Anyways, so it's an intermittent issue. I drove it fine two days ago, about 20 miles.
Today it won't start, just cranks. I have no spark at my cap if I remove the center plug wire and hold it in the hole to see the spark. I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right? |
You said earlier you had a Petronix distributor. Now you say you have a condenser. Which is it? If you are attaching a condenser to a Petronix that might be a cause of your weirdness. Incidentally a condenser is a capacitor, not a coil, so it should measure zero ohms. _________________ 1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50257
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Timing gun changes RPM when trigged pulled |
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WhirledTraveller wrote: |
74superTN wrote: |
Anyways, so it's an intermittent issue. I drove it fine two days ago, about 20 miles.
Today it won't start, just cranks. I have no spark at my cap if I remove the center plug wire and hold it in the hole to see the spark. I have voltage at my coil on both the negative and positive. Center coil to either post checks good. My question is, I have no ohms from my green condenser coil to where my condenser plugs into my distributor...I should, right? |
You said earlier you had a Petronix distributor. Now you say you have a condenser. Which is it? If you are attaching a condenser to a Petronix that might be a cause of your weirdness. Incidentally a condenser is a capacitor, not a coil, so it should measure zero ohms. |
The condenser will initially register low ohms but its resistance will climb rapidly until it read infinite ohms. |
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