Body Panel Replacement - A First Timer's Journey...

[Abscate]

Remember when skillz told you there’s was lots of fubar underneath? Don’t you hate always being right, skillz?
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[Spike0180]

Yes, you can start with drilling out spot welds (or grinding away). You may find it easier to make your cut first, but make sure you make it shallow in case there is structure under it. I don't remember which was easier with that panel or if I ever figured out which was easier or if it even matters.
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Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp

Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic"

[orwell84]

Here is a good thread on replacing this panel. Notice the substructure underneath. Also, the repair was done leaving the original panel edges in place where it is spot welded at the seams. Not sure if it is possible to do it that way with your bus. The thread includes lots of good tips.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541849

[Goach2]

Thanks orwell84, I hadn't seen that one before.

I would like to keep the seems if possible, but on the door side, there's damage and a rusty C-pillar bottom. On the rear seam, there is damage, not sure how it affected the seam at this point. I guess since the seem it's self wasn't bondo'd, perhaps it's still lined up properly? I will cut a few inches back from it here regardless and see how it goes. A point of reference can't be a bad thing...
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1977 FI Westfalia

[Goach2]

Question: Is a 'D' pillar the same as a 'C' Pillar? I've seen sites advertise A,B and D pillars, like a C doesn't exist. Perhaps they're universal? No funky green ones either, I've checked with them...
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1977 FI Westfalia

[orwell84]

I'm not aware of anyone who makes them. Usually it's just the bottom that needs to be replaced. I had to do mine on the driver's side and just made one by making a template from what was left. I think most people end up doing it this way.

[Zed999]

[Goach2]

How tough it is to fix minor dents beside the seams? I'm thinking if I leave a few inches beside the seam it will save me some aggravation. There are a few dent right next to the seam though, can these be hammer and dollied flat?
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1977 FI Westfalia

[orwell84]

Most likely. It shouldn’t be too difficult.

[TomWesty]

[Goach2]

So my new replacement panel came in today and I will be getting ready to cut out the old one, hopefully in one piece. one question I have is in terms of the 'U' channel. I can drill out the spot welds on the door frame and cut it off with the panel, then try and weld it onto the new panel, or I could potentially leave it on and bend in the inside edge, so that the new panel edge will sit over it, inside of the 'U' and tack it there.

Do one of these approaches sound better than the other?
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1977 FI Westfalia

[orwell84]

I’m not sure what you are referring to by u channel or what you are planning to bend. By U channel do you mean where the seal fits in for the sliding door ? How does the metal on the rest of the panel look? Pics would help. If in doubt, don’t cut it out. Leave as much as possible and only use as much of the replacement as you need.

If I understand you correctly, I would leave as much of that channel as possible. If you look carefully at the repair in the link I referenced, he kept most of that channel as well as some of the leading edge of the old panel. He butt welded the repair panel along that edge. Don’t bend that edge in and lay the repair over it. He also removed the bottom of the original u channel and used the one from the repair panel as it was probably mangled or rusted out which is a good idea. Make sure it is lined up and square. You really don’t want to lose or fudge door apertures.

[Goach2]

Right, U channel holds the door seal. My edge of the channel that continues across the wheel_arch panel is damaged:

I'm trying to find the best way to merge the old and new. Cut the channel out and weld together on the bench? Or leave it in place and try and weld together?
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1977 FI Westfalia

[busdaddy]

If your new panel doesn't have that lip then leave the OG one on the bus, leave a couple inches of the old flat part as well.
If butt welding the edge of the new panel to the edge of the old remnants isn't something you are comfortable with consider investing in one of these: https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/air-3-16-in-punch-and-flange-tool/A-p8181406e

Puts a nice step flange on the remaining panel and punches holes in the new one for plug welding. Once you've used one you'll never go back to a drill.
The finished seam is resistant to warping and if you seal the back side well it won't start rusting until you are too old to give a damn.

Do keep in mind there's a second layer of pillar hiding behind that outer skin, it'll make it impossible to flange the old panel, either cut long or flange the replacement part.
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[orwell84]

Right. I see what you mean. I would use what is included with the new panel to replace the damaged area. You are thinking of removing the rest of the u channel part in that area and welding it to the panel before fitting the complete panel. I am honestly not sure as I have never done this particular part of the bus. I would probably try to tack it together on the bench, try it for fit, adjust as necessary. I'm assuming the repair panel doesn't have the complete channel.

[orwell84]

[Goach2]

So this tool makes an over-lapped seam on a body panel?

Busdaddy - Are you suggesting that I overlap the new panel edge over the damaged side of the U channel that sticks out perpendicular from the side? I'm just trying to envision it. thx!
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1977 FI Westfalia

[Zed999]

The tool is for making a step along the horizontal join so you can overlap the step and keep panels flush.

Where the panel joins at the seal channel, a neat way is to join about 3-4mm into the seal channel. That way you keep the new panel folded bend into the channel and the join will be hidden by the seal. You need the join to be far enough into the seal channel to be hidden but not so deep that you can't get a weld and clean up after. BUT only where you need to replace this nicely folded corner. Where it's good further up the panel, keep the corner, cut the panel about 15mm from the bend CAREFULLY as the c-post is almost touching the panel you're cutting. You'll be butt welding this join as the c-post prevents tucking your panel behind even using the tool. Hope that makes sense.

[Goach2]

Zed999, sorry, I just want to be sure I'm visualizing this correctly, is this what is being suggested?

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1977 FI Westfalia

[busdaddy]

Welding and finishing down in a channel like that is no fun for a pro, a novice will run away screaming part way through the job.

I was suggesting leaving ~2" of the existing panel in place, once the middle of the panel is removed you can reach behind to straighten out the remaining lip. Then flange it (or the replacement part) so one can lap underneath the other near the edge of the flat side panel.

If the remains of the side panel are beyond hope of saving then I'd butt weld on the 90* edge where it descends into the channel (where your "cut here" arrow points). Stay out of that valley of despair, there's not enough room to learn how to weld and grind in there.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!