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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: Does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| According to the tech section.... serial number 1600846 with 36hp motor 1937052 was the last oval made at the end of July 1957. So, serial number 1600847 with engine number 1937053? |
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| Anything in early August with the original 36hp? |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
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Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| thanks, been through both of those without an answer. Convertibles were a different breed, I understand taking a different path to completion, which wouldn't match up with a sedan. I'd hope among the thousands of Samba members a few who had cars built in July and August of 1957. |
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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got someone with a late oval....
Chassis #1599686 Engine #1926809 Body# 582287
in theory the first square window is Serial #1600847 and Engine 1937052? |
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pastellgreen
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2012
Posts: 1048
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:25 am Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| Forget the engine and body number in that case. They were not taken in continous order at the assembly line... |
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h~moto
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 317
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| Quote: |
| Forget the engine and body number in that case. They were not taken in continous order at the assembly line... |
Really? I have thought that of the engines but it never occurred to me that the body numbers would be out of order. |
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h~moto
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 317
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| Despite what Progressive Refinements says, I would go by the certificate you have that lists the build date as July 15th, 1957. I have a very early 1966 Beetle that was built on July 7th, 1965. |
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Keith
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 3634
Location: Brodheadsville, PA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:21 am Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| h~moto wrote: |
| Despite what Progressive Refinements says, I would go by the certificate you have that lists the build date as July 15th, 1957. I have a very early 1966 Beetle that was built on July 7th, 1965. |
That’s because in Aug 1955 VW started following the industry standard of Aug the previous year to last day of July current year for model years.
So, beginning Aug ‘55 to last day of July ‘56 was the ‘56 model year.
Prior to that it was January to December with ‘55 production being a short year going from January to July of ‘55
I have a very early ‘65 that was built end of the first or beginning of the second day of production in August ‘64 (depending on who’s numbers you are looking at).
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h~moto
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 317
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| Quote: |
| That’s because in Aug 1955 VW started following the industry standard of Aug the previous year |
I understand that but the dates we're talking about are in July, weeks before an August start of the model year. My car was the 423rd car to come off the assembly line for the `66 model year. I debated whether or not to order a birth certificate because I was sure it would have an August 2nd build date, the official start of the `66 model year (August 1st was a Sunday). I ended up ordering a birth certificate and was surprised when it listed the build date as July 7th 1965. It did have a "left factory on" date of August 2nd. I would not be surprised if your car was actually built in July of 1964. |
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Keith
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 3634
Location: Brodheadsville, PA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| h~moto wrote: |
| Quote: |
| That’s because in Aug 1955 VW started following the industry standard of Aug the previous year |
I understand that but the dates we're talking about are in July, weeks before an August start of the model year. My car was the 423rd car to come off the assembly line for the `66 model year. I debated whether or not to order a birth certificate because I was sure it would have an August 2nd build date, the official start of the `66 model year (August 1st was a Sunday). I ended up ordering a birth certificate and was surprised when it listed the build date as July 7th 1965. It did have a "left factory on" date of August 2nd. I would not be surprised if your car was actually built in July of 1964. |
The birth certificates are also known to have errors in them and can’t be taken as 100% error free and absolute.
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Formerly known in the forums as "OVALTEEN"
"I firmly believe that some villagers from Botswana could probably build a better road than PennDot."- Splitty
"If you do anything to your car someone will hate on you for it. People absolutely love to complain and find fault with others. Don't let it bother you. Just live and have fun."- Lind |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69820
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| h~moto wrote: |
| Quote: |
| That’s because in Aug 1955 VW started following the industry standard of Aug the previous year |
I understand that but the dates we're talking about are in July, weeks before an August start of the model year. My car was the 423rd car to come off the assembly line for the `66 model year. I debated whether or not to order a birth certificate because I was sure it would have an August 2nd build date, the official start of the `66 model year (August 1st was a Sunday). I ended up ordering a birth certificate and was surprised when it listed the build date as July 7th 1965. It did have a "left factory on" date of August 2nd. I would not be surprised if your car was actually built in July of 1964. |
Yes, this is known to happen.
They started it in July and finished it later but it's still a 1966 model.
My understanding is the factory/Germany had a big vacation period every year in July.
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8503
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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Not the first made but pretty early if I remember correctly
| Type2Postal wrote: |
| Interboat tourists 😁. Ok I got a new one if somebody can help ... Lol ..I have a 1958 built in August 1957 left factory at September 20 1957 ... I'm stuck on how it said for country of destination is. Interboat Tourists ... ??? Wth....and on the extras it has a m code 350 US-Equipment ... Is it a US car or not .. Lol. Thanks again if any body has info that would be cool.. Thanks |
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| My car is july 15/57 build, serial #1601113, orignal engine number unknown |
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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This is also in the 58-59 thread, but I found more interesting info in an old thread from 2008 that sheds some light...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
There are some conflicting numbers... as our tech section shows the last car in July 1957 as serial number #1600846 but i've seen it elsewhere as the first car of August was #1600440.
On this site from 2002, https://web.archive.org/web/20050114173130/http://www.squarewindowregistry.org/featured/2002-08/
It shows a square window beetle with vin 1600831, which is before the 1600846 shown in the Technical Section?
According to the VW brochure "what year is this" it shows the last beetle in July 57 as being 1600439. That would make more sense if the first square window is VIN 1600440.
So anyone with a 58 square window, VIN 1600440? |
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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I realized that I saw the conflicting info on the Tech section here on the Samba. In theory, August 1 was first square window, with the last car in July serial number 1600846. On the side there's a note saying August 1 Square rear window from chassis 1600440, which was late July, not August. It would be 406 cars before the last one in July. So really, a square window could have an engine number prior to 1937052, potentially at least as early as 1936646 if they happened to be perfectly sequentially, which I understand they necessarily were not if there were issues with an engine and they put it aside for work. Haven't come across with anyone else with a square window with a serial number and engine from July... yet!
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h~moto
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 317
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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| Quote: |
| . . . if they happened to be perfectly sequentially, which I understand they necessarily were not if there were issues with an engine and they put it aside for work |
From what I understand, engine numbers were not sequential in any way - there did not have to be an issue for them to be out of order. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:44 am Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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Just commenting here... bwaz, you are assuming that VIN numbering was perfectly sequential and the first '58 model year Beetle must come after the last '57 model year car. But if this not actually the case, then there is nothing preventing the first '58 having a lower VIN than the last '57. This would mean there is nothing wrong with the above table numbers being non-sequential.
Just imagine two (or more) production lines and they get converted to the new model year changes at different times. Updated lines produce the new model year while the non-updated lines continue to produce the old model year.
I'm not saying this is what happened, but it would rather easily explain VIN inconsistencies in the transition months.
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: does anyone here own the first square window beetle? |
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^ This...
In the early days pre 1965 VIN standardized numbering including the year ID stamped in VIN sequence ... (example 1965 = 115 or 155 ), I could certainly agree that quite a few VIN numbering cross overs happening right at the assembly plant.
Think about it... they are shooting VWs down the line as fast as they can...and in a matter of two weeks... a complete body change is placed into production.
In addition to the date VIN mayhem around year production ending and beginning. ... incomplete chassis and bodies were already shipped over to Karmann for final Convertible construction... hence why dates and VINs for convertibles sometimes...  rarely coincided with Sedans.
In those days... VW could give two shits about dates and VINs and break points... just assembly... and... Im sure they never even considered anyone trying to break down their lil' German tin cans in that way.. 
Pre 1965.. VW VINs actual VIN numbers really weren't date/year stamped ..... they were basically a serial number. The only standardization at that time was year model were to be Aug 1 through July 31 production date guidelines which had become an auto industry standard in 1955.
VINs = Ford was different than Chevy, Chevy was different from Chrysler, and VW.. was .. different too. (Digit amounts as well).
Hell.. even today we have new cars/trucks (especially body changes) shipped before year production is technically started.. The biggest difference today.. it is an industry wide standardized VIN numbering which ALL manufacturers are subject to.
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