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Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY
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pedro sainz
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Im having a Great Experience with my First Automatic 1968 type 34

they are so many unique parts and found out theres 3 different design and sizes of AUTOMATIC emblems and Extra wires more than what I ever seen comparing
with the rest Early type 3s and type 34s stick shift

I had Notice there's NO wiring diagram for specific 1968 Models ONLY

In 1968 MANY changes and Options with Warning Lights and Dummy lights
NOT found in one Diagram,
so I had to used 3 different diagrams and Separate by sections and focus on specific item
Most diagrams are title 68 - and Later
every YEAR change by adding Options or Deleted

ALL Automatic Owners are Welcome to Ask or Post and
learn MORE about it , I realize will be a small group since NOT to many Owners but we can solving Problems and keep going forward on our restorations
I wont have ALL your Answers but we can help each other HERE Smile

Thanks for your support Smile
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Just be glad you don't have FI to go with that AT Pedro. Wink

I would have thought Jack might have been some help with it, or am I thinking of Bob, as I thought 1 of them had a 68 with AT.

There's not much that the AT adds as far as wiring goes. There's the kick down wiring with the throttle switch and fuse holder in the engine compartment, but the rest of the wiring is inside the car.
The reverse light switch and the neutral safety switch are built into the shifter, and those wires run along the floor/tunnel thru a grommet in the battery tray and out to the starter and reverse light "T". If I remember right, the 2 front contacts (up and down) on the shifter are for the reverse lights, while the rear set (up and down) are the neutral safety switch contacts. I've slept since then, so I might have them backwards. But, those are the only wires that I know of for the AT.
I hope this helps.

P.S. Doesn't the T-34 Meister Lee have a 68 or 69 AT T-34?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

71 auto euro-fastback here,
I'm pretty sure I have a (photocopy of a) factory auto trans manual that if I recall correctly is from '68, so it has all the 68-only oddities, now, where did I put it? Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Typically.....injection differences wise with the AT....just off the top of my head....of course the AAR is the electric one....but thats not just Auto after a certain point in time right?

And....on cars with decel valves was there a change to the electric decel valve versus vacuum?
Also trans kick down switch on type 3.....cant remember how D-jet on type 3 did it....whether it had a throttle switch in the back or one under the accel pedal like type 4.

There were.....I think....two differences in wiring to the shifter mounted ignition start lockout/neutral safety switch as well. Ray
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pedro sainz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Just be glad you don't have FI to go with that AT Pedro. Wink

I would have thought Jack might have been some help with it, or am I thinking of Bob, as I thought 1 of them had a 68 with AT.

There's not much that the AT adds as far as wiring goes. There's the kick down wiring with the throttle switch and fuse holder in the engine compartment, but the rest of the wiring is inside the car.
The reverse light switch and the neutral safety switch are built into the shifter, and those wires run along the floor/tunnel thru a grommet in the battery tray and out to the starter and reverse light "T". If I remember right, the 2 front contacts (up and down) on the shifter are for the reverse lights, while the rear set (up and down) are the neutral safety switch contacts. I've slept since then, so I might have them backwards. But, those are the only wires that I know of for the AT.
I hope this helps.

P.S. Doesn't the T-34 Meister Lee have a 68 or 69 AT T-34?


Hello Bob

Yes I always have Jack and Lee in my mind all the time
NOT everyone have these Great Amigos near as I do just miles away

you know I always like to announce or post improvements or upgrades
and Not keep them to my self

what you just posted Bob just made my point
not everyone knows
im Happy is stated Here thanks
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pedro sainz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Typically.....injection differences wise with the AT....just off the top of my head....of course the AAR is the electric one....but thats not just Auto after a certain point in time right?

And....on cars with decel valves was there a change to the electric decel valve versus vacuum?
Also trans kick down switch on type 3.....cant remember how D-jet on type 3 did it....whether it had a throttle switch in the back or one under the accel pedal like type 4.

There were.....I think....two differences in wiring to the shifter mounted ignition start lockout/neutral safety switch as well. Ray


Hello Ray
thanks for your time
any of your experience is so Value in this Thread
thanks
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pedro sainz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Slow 1200 wrote:
71 auto euro-fastback here,
I'm pretty sure I have a (photocopy of a) factory auto trans manual that if I recall correctly is from '68, so it has all the 68-only oddities, now, where did I put it? Laughing


hello Slow
that would be Nice to posted here
if you find it Smile
thanks
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

I think the AT wiring is also in the Brown Bentley. My copy of it is out in the garage, since I've got a 69 Square out there getting some work done on it. But then I'd still need to scan it.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
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pedro sainz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
I think the AT wiring is also in the Brown Bentley. My copy of it is out in the garage, since I've got a 69 Square out there getting some work done on it. But then I'd still need to scan it.


Awesome
can't wait to see it Cool
thanks for your support
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Here's the supplement you're looking for, Pedro.

This is from 1970 model year but the only difference between this and 1968 is the placement of the reverse lamps.

The other differences for the entire production run are that the first true 1968 automatics had the legend "PR0321" on the shifter and 1969 on had "PRND21". The other difference was that in 1973 the shifters were (finally!) wired with a safety switch that would allow the cars to be started in "P" as well as "N".

That's it. All wiring for the Automatic electronics was black.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/type3_8_69_additional_usa.jpg

The electric AAR that appeared on Type 3 automatics only started in model year 1970 second design cars, and was considered as part of the chassis wiring (it's that "red wire to nowhere" a lot of posters ask about in the forum here that's in the wrap with the coil and oil sender wires) and that's why they don't show it in the supplement.

Hope this helps.

And Ray, Type 3 never had a floor mounted kickdown. They're all at the engine throttle end of the cable. I've often wondered if a retrofit of the floor switch is workable.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
Here's the supplement you're looking for, Pedro.

This is from 1970 model year but the only difference between this and 1968 is the placement of the reverse lamps.

The other differences for the entire production run are that the first true 1968 automatics had the legend "PR0321" on the shifter and 1969 on had "PRND21". The other difference was that in 1973 the shifters were (finally!) wired with a safety switch that would allow the cars to be started in "P" as well as "N".

That's it. All wiring for the Automatic electronics was black.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/type3_8_69_additional_usa.jpg

The electric AAR that appeared on Type 3 automatics only started in model year 1970 second design cars, and was considered as part of the chassis wiring (it's that "red wire to nowhere" a lot of posters ask about in the forum here that's in the wrap with the coil and oil sender wires) and that's why they don't show it in the supplement.

Hope this helps.

And Ray, Type 3 never had a floor mounted kickdown. They're all at the engine throttle end of the cable. I've often wondered if a retrofit of the floor switch is workable.


Great Info Compadre
thanks for your time

im gathering anything related on Automatic in this thread
I learn and know information on paper get LOST
and Great VW people leave this World

thanks again Tram
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



here's a picture for those don't know what are you missing
with out the spring won't work properly
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


here's another interesting feature
you might have a PLUG or NOT

if NOT

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


these Altitude Balancers screws IN Smile

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


there's a left and a Right for a Reason
so when you rebuilt them look for the stamp Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

pedro sainz wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



here's a picture for those don't know what are you missing
with out the spring won't work properly


So where's your switch? Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
Here's the supplement you're looking for, Pedro.

This is from 1970 model year but the only difference between this and 1968 is the placement of the reverse lamps.

The other differences for the entire production run are that the first true 1968 automatics had the legend "PR0321" on the shifter and 1969 on had "PRND21". The other difference was that in 1973 the shifters were (finally!) wired with a safety switch that would allow the cars to be started in "P" as well as "N".

That's it. All wiring for the Automatic electronics was black.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/type3_8_69_additional_usa.jpg

The electric AAR that appeared on Type 3 automatics only started in model year 1970 second design cars, and was considered as part of the chassis wiring (it's that "red wire to nowhere" a lot of posters ask about in the forum here that's in the wrap with the coil and oil sender wires) and that's why they don't show it in the supplement.

Hope this helps.

And Ray, Type 3 never had a floor mounted kickdown. They're all at the engine throttle end of the cable. I've often wondered if a retrofit of the floor switch is workable.


Yep....thanks for verification on the floor/pedal mounted kickdown. Though....in reality if type 3 did have one.....I would probably have a pile of them because I would have robbed them from every type 3 I found one in....so I should have known better! Laughing

Not sure if the pedal kick down would fit a type 3. The type 4 (411/412) gas pedal is very similar. Let me look in the book. It may very well be a type 3 part.

The shifter switch that allowed starting in park. I "think" that is the same one that the type 4 cars used as well...71 and on 411 through 412....all started in park or neutral. One more ource you guys might steal from if you find a 412. Pretty sure it was all type 3 part #s. Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Tram wrote:
Here's the supplement you're looking for, Pedro.

This is from 1970 model year but the only difference between this and 1968 is the placement of the reverse lamps.

The other differences for the entire production run are that the first true 1968 automatics had the legend "PR0321" on the shifter and 1969 on had "PRND21". The other difference was that in 1973 the shifters were (finally!) wired with a safety switch that would allow the cars to be started in "P" as well as "N".

That's it. All wiring for the Automatic electronics was black.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/type3_8_69_additional_usa.jpg

The electric AAR that appeared on Type 3 automatics only started in model year 1970 second design cars, and was considered as part of the chassis wiring (it's that "red wire to nowhere" a lot of posters ask about in the forum here that's in the wrap with the coil and oil sender wires) and that's why they don't show it in the supplement.

Hope this helps.

And Ray, Type 3 never had a floor mounted kickdown. They're all at the engine throttle end of the cable. I've often wondered if a retrofit of the floor switch is workable.


Yep....thanks for verification on the floor/pedal mounted kickdown. Though....in reality if type 3 did have one.....I would probably have a pile of them because I would have robbed them from every type 3 I found one in....so I should have known better! Laughing

Not sure if the pedal kick down would fit a type 3. The type 4 (411/412) gas pedal is very similar. Let me look in the book. It may very well be a type 3 part.

The shifter switch that allowed starting in park. I "think" that is the same one that the type 4 cars used as well...71 and on 411 through 412....all started in park or neutral. One more ource you guys might steal from if you find a 412. Pretty sure it was all type 3 part #s. Ray


The floor mounted switch would likely be mounted under the pedal panel somehow. You'd still need the spring loaded throttle linkage back on the engine. Not sure how the "push through" to engage the kickdown on a Type 4 worked.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's the Kick down switch
hard to see from TOP view picture

is located under the spring and is attach by 2 screws Smile

this Kick Down switch is Unique
they are TWO styles similar shape but just a little different

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by pedro sainz on Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:40 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

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this Picture shows you how the fuel line is HOLD by the bracket Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
Tram wrote:
Here's the supplement you're looking for, Pedro.

This is from 1970 model year but the only difference between this and 1968 is the placement of the reverse lamps.

The other differences for the entire production run are that the first true 1968 automatics had the legend "PR0321" on the shifter and 1969 on had "PRND21". The other difference was that in 1973 the shifters were (finally!) wired with a safety switch that would allow the cars to be started in "P" as well as "N".

That's it. All wiring for the Automatic electronics was black.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/type3_8_69_additional_usa.jpg

The electric AAR that appeared on Type 3 automatics only started in model year 1970 second design cars, and was considered as part of the chassis wiring (it's that "red wire to nowhere" a lot of posters ask about in the forum here that's in the wrap with the coil and oil sender wires) and that's why they don't show it in the supplement.

Hope this helps.

And Ray, Type 3 never had a floor mounted kickdown. They're all at the engine throttle end of the cable. I've often wondered if a retrofit of the floor switch is workable.


Yep....thanks for verification on the floor/pedal mounted kickdown. Though....in reality if type 3 did have one.....I would probably have a pile of them because I would have robbed them from every type 3 I found one in....so I should have known better! Laughing

Not sure if the pedal kick down would fit a type 3. The type 4 (411/412) gas pedal is very similar. Let me look in the book. It may very well be a type 3 part.

The shifter switch that allowed starting in park. I "think" that is the same one that the type 4 cars used as well...71 and on 411 through 412....all started in park or neutral. One more ource you guys might steal from if you find a 412. Pretty sure it was all type 3 part #s. Ray


The floor mounted switch would likely be mounted under the pedal panel somehow. You'd still need the spring loaded throttle linkage back on the engine. Not sure how the "push through" to engage the kickdown on a Type 4 worked.


Yes....and checking the books...I am stunned...not a type 3 part in it..even though I could swear that the pedal itself is virtually identical to type 3.

Its a little pedestal/steel box under the pedal. If memory serves its held to the floor with two 6mm phillips head screws ...that as you can imagine almost always are rusted to the deck.

There are two parts. One for the 004 manual trans....with no switch inside the housing...and one for the 003 trans automatic that has a plastic cover on the top end that hides a fairly common single pole lever type micro switch.

The manual trans model with no kick down switch is part # 17 un the diagram and the auto model with kick down switch is part # 26. Outside of the little metal pedestal/box...its a pretty similar little lever that operates a throttle cable that is pretty damn similar to a type 3.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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For those of you "parts hags"...who feel the need to steal parts from an even rarer car than yours Laughing ...dont feel bad really...I dont!...I steal parts from from type 3 wrecks whenever I can....parts is parts!....here is the type 4 automatic shifter unit and its parts number list. Note the huge number of type 3 part numbers. Happy picking!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Thread for Automatics Models ONLY Reply with quote

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Here’s 3 designs of Emblems
Smaller emblem 8.25 inches is for Type 34s
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