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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20267
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| janerick3 wrote: |
Subarus are the best AND worst winter driving cars.
The suspension wears out long before the car does. Before I had the struts replaced on my wife's '96 Outback, the car would launch into spins without warning on ice.
Also, the bolts for the front anti-sway bar have a tendency to fall out, making for a dangerous situation. |
I had several sway bar links (dogbones) fail over the 12 years we owned our last Soob. Only had to do rear struts once in that 120K miles, though.
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nothing |
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pondoras box
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2004
Posts: 1214
Location: Eerie PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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Studded snow tires, I have been using them on two wheel drive cars both front wheel and rear wheel drive for 11 years with lake effect snow in our area. If they don't work for you on snow and or ice then get lessons on how to drive in winter weather because you're doing something wrong.
Bottom line is no matter what you do you are driving on a slick surface all season tires on an all wheel of four wheel drive will skid just as easy on snow and ice as a two wheel drive. And it goes sideways when it spins during acceleration. Even with snow tires you still need to realize you have an advantage over all season but they will let go as well. Drive appropriately for the conditions.
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Looking for anything from Hal Casey Motors out of Hamburg New York, from license plate surrounds to matchbooks.
1961 23 Window (Bobo)
1965 11 Window (Zelda)
1965 13 Window (Lucas)
1957 Oval ragtop
1988 Cabriolet VR6 conversion
Plus a lot of other rusty junk |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12704
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| janerick3 wrote: |
Subarus are the best AND worst winter driving cars.
The suspension wears out long before the car does. Before I had the struts replaced on my wife's '96 Outback, the car would launch into spins without warning on ice.
Also, the bolts for the front anti-sway bar have a tendency to fall out, making for a dangerous situation. |
Here's a guy that knows that the scoop is! Yup, spins out without warning in any direction at any time. Impossible to predict which way it will go, almost like it checks to see which wheel has the most traction and spins off that direction. I have no shortage of experience driving on ice and snow so you can forget that being the problem. I am normally the one passing everyone on ice and driving on the ragged edge of traction. In this thing I am holding up everyone on the road!
The car had 45K on it when we got it, since then it has had 3 sets of good winter tires, 2 new sets of rear wheel bearinds, all 4 new struts and 4 wheel alignments. It now has 250K on it and NOTHING has changed.
Just for interest, when we take it ice racing it comes in nearly dead last no matter who is driving. Behind the front wheel drives and the rear wheel drives.
Like I said, in the snow it works just fine. |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20267
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| oprn wrote: |
| janerick3 wrote: |
Subarus are the best AND worst winter driving cars.
The suspension wears out long before the car does. Before I had the struts replaced on my wife's '96 Outback, the car would launch into spins without warning on ice.
Also, the bolts for the front anti-sway bar have a tendency to fall out, making for a dangerous situation. |
Here's a guy that knows that the scoop is! Yup, spins out without warning in any direction at any time. Impossible to predict which way it will go, almost like it checks to see which wheel has the most traction and spins off that direction. I have no shortage of experience driving on ice and snow so you can forget that being the problem. I am normally the one passing everyone on ice and driving on the ragged edge of traction. In this thing I am holding up everyone on the road!
The car had 45K on it when we got it, since then it has had 3 sets of good winter tires, 2 new sets of rear wheel bearinds, all 4 new struts and 4 wheel alignments. It now has 250K on it and NOTHING has changed.
Like I said, in the snow it works just fine. |
Interesting. Thousands of miles of slick road driving in Subarus and never once have I had that happen. Can't say I have ever heard of that from anyone else either. They are the go-to car for lots of folks here in North Idaho, and we see some nasty road conditions regularly.
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crukab
Samba Chef
Joined: December 13, 2002
Posts: 6116
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| ach60 wrote: |
Patina was just getting started. |
AHHHH no, that hatch was Swiss cheese, the patch in the middle was 3/4 of a license plate w/ a pint of Mar-glass, from last years inspection (2/17) the rest of that has developed since then.... 
Studded snows are the way to roll here in Vermont w/ front wheel drive, lots of hills & ice.
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Tom
My Pops:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604100&highlight=
I know you will always be with me, rest in peace with no more pain. 8/13/14.....
In the yard right now:
'51 Dodge 5 window truck
'65 Bug
'66 Singlecab
'82 Rabbit Truck Diesel from CALI 
'86 Doublecab W/T
'91 Vanagon carat/wolfsbrg.Tiico
'88 Dodge Ram pickup
'11 Jetta Wagon |
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calvinater
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 3327
Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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Uninspectable now , no rust thru any where allowd in case some one walks pasr your car and gets hurt . Save us from ourselves so we do not have to be responsible for our own actions
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"Albatross"! |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| calvinater wrote: |
| Uninspectable now , no rust thru any where allowd in case some one walks pasr your car and gets hurt . Save us from ourselves so we do not have to be responsible for our own actions |
yea....because 9 times out of 10 if sheet metal on the exterior looks that bad, what do the floors and rockers look like?
I wish CT would let us do inspections like that. I have had so much junk that I would love to see get fixed or just crushed because of holes in floors, rockers etc but I have to let it go.
I document and photo every car I work on that is dangerous. I also make them sign on the invoice right next to my warning as well, so they can't deny the fact that I never told them. I also do a short video of the car as well, showing the VIN, mileage etc. sadly, it's called cover your ass
this was the last straw for me:
https://www.mynbc5.com/article/licensed-car-mechan...th/3324536
I have a friend who owns a shop in Hyde Park VT. he knows the owner of the shop that passed this car....why did it pass? the people were old, had no money and cried in the office. so they passed the car on the promise that they would fail it next inspection to give them some time....the only guy who got time was the tech...
for once, I agree with a gov't program. I see so much unsafe junk rolling around it isn't funny.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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calvinater
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 3327
Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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Ouch
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"Albatross"! |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69802
Location: Phoenix Metro
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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one of the tests they have to do is a 2 foot "panic stop" so basically sit in the car and slam the brakes with both feet like it was no ones business.
my friend has told me he's blown lines and master cylinders doing this test. the rust up here in the North East is no joke.
here is a XC90 rear wheel bearing I had to plasma cut out of the car. what should have been a 1.6 hour job was more like 3.5....but I saved a 900.00 axle in the process (which you need to take a LOT of the suspension apart to change)
so, I agree with getting unsafe crap off the road. most people go to iffy-lube for service and they don't look cars over when they do an oil change...all they try to do is sell filters. every o/c I do the car gets a good check over to alert folks of any issues.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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calvinater
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 3327
Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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Sir you sound like an honest mechanic, i applaud your approach to the situation.
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"Albatross"! |
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janerick3
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 1879
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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You really don't see a lot of 1990s cars running around in New England nowadays, especially since (most of) the NE states started cracking down on rust.
It's a far cry from the early 1980s, when old license plates, pop rivets, duct tape and spray undercoating was all that was needed to pass a rust-through inspection. A six-pack or a sizable tip didn't hurt, either. Every station knew who the state inspectors were and where they were working on a given day, so fines and license revocations were few and far between.
If you had the time and skill, a gallon of bondo and a $50 paint job got you another 2-3 years of life out of a beater.
Of course, your lights, wipers, and horn had to work, none of your tires were bald, muffler wasn't blown, glass wasn't cracked and your car didn't blow blue smoke. If then you failed inspection, you picked the wrong station.
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Thanks,
Jan K. |
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janerick3
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 1879
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
| janerick3 wrote: |
Subarus are the best AND worst winter driving cars.
The suspension wears out long before the car does. Before I had the struts replaced on my wife's '96 Outback, the car would launch into spins without warning on ice.
Also, the bolts for the front anti-sway bar have a tendency to fall out, making for a dangerous situation. |
Here's a guy that knows that the scoop is! Yup, spins out without warning in any direction at any time. Impossible to predict which way it will go, almost like it checks to see which wheel has the most traction and spins off that direction. I have no shortage of experience driving on ice and snow so you can forget that being the problem. I am normally the one passing everyone on ice and driving on the ragged edge of traction. In this thing I am holding up everyone on the road!
The car had 45K on it when we got it, since then it has had 3 sets of good winter tires, 2 new sets of rear wheel bearinds, all 4 new struts and 4 wheel alignments. It now has 250K on it and NOTHING has changed.
Like I said, in the snow it works just fine. |
Interesting. Thousands of miles of slick road driving in Subarus and never once have I had that happen. Can't say I have ever heard of that from anyone else either. They are the go-to car for lots of folks here in North Idaho, and we see some nasty road conditions regularly. |
To add: Warped rotors and antilock brakes on older Subarus are a dangerous mix. Spend the money on new rotors instead of having them turned. The antilock brakes on late-model Subarus are like night and day.
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Thanks,
Jan K. |
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janerick3
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 1879
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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Today was the third time I launched my wife's '96 Outback on black ice without any warning (and the scariest to date @ 55mph). Temperature dropped and the untreated road just started to freeze. Trashed a driving light and front license plate frame sliding across the grass berm, just missing a light pole and reflector post in the process. My underwear stayed dry, surprisingly. Felt like road racing, but with obstacles...
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Thanks,
Jan K. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12704
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| I am not at all impressed with all wheel drive! Give me front or rear wheel drive any day, one or the other. Much more predictable on pure ice. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| oprn wrote: |
| I am not at all impressed with all wheel drive! Give me front or rear wheel drive any day, one or the other. Much more predictable on pure ice. |
nothing will save you on black ice. studded tires may help somewhat.
I always tell people AWD is great...for going...but you still have the same 4 brakes as a 2WD
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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LeftToaster
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2018
Posts: 26
Location: BC
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
| Laying under a Civic trying to do up the inside clasp on chains could indeed take more time than spinning off 8 lug nuts. A lot colder and wetter too! |
Until you drop a few nuts in the snow never to be seen again    
Putting chains on a front drive isn't so terrible, you can turn the wheel you are working on out to reach the inner side a little easier.
Flip a coin, swap wheels or install chains roadside, likely about the same overall effort, but loose chains take up a whole lot less trunk space. |
I try not to drop my nuts in the snow.
I've lived in Saskatchewan, BC, Alberta, Ontario [and California] urban and rural. I can count on 1 finger the number of times I have actually needed chains. You can put chains on pretty much any car, but if you drive much more than about 30Km/h you risk shredding your fenders.
For longer winter trips through the mountains or if I am going back country skiing I have a set of cable chains that I bring along. I shouldn't say I've never used them. If you are stuck, just throw them under the driving tires like a mat and drive over them to get going.
Front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, four wheel drive - it doesn't matter, true Snow Tires versus All Season tires are the most important thing. On all of my cars, I put all seasons on for 3 seasons and snow tires for winter. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12704
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
| I am not at all impressed with all wheel drive! Give me front or rear wheel drive any day, one or the other. Much more predictable on pure ice. |
nothing will save you on black ice. studded tires may help somewhat. |
There are two things that will along with your studded tires. 1) a two wheel drive car (front or rear) that gives you fair warning that conditions are not good (AWD and 4WD do not!) and 2) the common sense to slow down!!
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| I always tell people AWD is great...for going...but you still have the same 4 brakes as a 2WD |
Agreed 100% !! |
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ach60
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2001
Posts: 4139
Location: Santa Maria
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Winter beater |
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| crukab wrote: |
| ach60 wrote: |
Patina was just getting started. |
AHHHH no, that hatch was Swiss cheese, the patch in the middle was 3/4 of a license plate w/ a pint of Mar-glass, from last years inspection (2/17) the rest of that has developed since then....
Studded snows are the way to roll here in Vermont w/ front wheel drive, lots of hills & ice. |
I admit I know nothing about rust, I've live in the SF Bay area of Ca. for 34 years.
I saw rusty cars living in the Midwest as a kid & young adult, so I "knew" where to look then,
but with new cars having so much plastic cladding, the trunk could rot off before you see the damage
I was joking about the Patina, but like another poster said rust is no joke.
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Good Luck
Al |
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