Engine build possibilities...

[airshac]

I recently bought a bus, its a '77 but with a '71 stock engine. So I'm going to take the engine out and do a complete rebuild and put the type 1 engine back in. Going back with a dual carb set up and electronic ignition.
I'd like to build it as big as my budget allows, about $2k or less. Tomorrow I'm going to call around and find an approx price for machining on the case.
So, what sort of parts combination options do I have and where would you order parts from?
What carb set up is best for the various build options?
I'll take any specific, concise information you can give me or direct me to.
It will mostly be used for camping trips on the weekend and as a back up daily driver if needed.
Thank you!
PS. I am searching through the Performance threads for more information.
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Any time I park the bus and it's not smoking, leaking or on fire I consider it a good trip.

1971 Westfalia adventure wagon Festy Westy.

1977 Tintop, Weekender conversion in progress.

[earthquake]

A 1915cc with out going small stroker is about the easiest you can do, machine the cases and heads for 94's and use the stock crank and rods. you might be able to get by with a 74x94 stroker with out much case clearance work for a 2051cc but it would still need to cut the case and head for 94's

eQ
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74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
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DEATH TO CHINGERS!
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[airshac]

What do you think of this comb-
https://www.scatvw.com/product/volkstroker-84-00mm/
https://www.scatvw.com/product/weber-dual-40-idf-linkage-type-i-carburetor-kit-with-air-cleaners/
https://www.scatvw.com/product/94mm-bore-street-port-hi-rev-pro-street-heads-each/
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Any time I park the bus and it's not smoking, leaking or on fire I consider it a good trip.

1971 Westfalia adventure wagon Festy Westy.

1977 Tintop, Weekender conversion in progress.

[Splitdog]

Go 78 or 82 mm crank for a bus. Maybe 90.5's.....
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[Teeroy]

For a heavy Bay Window with a type 1, I would go with 78 x 90.5, a set of Tims l9rted and polished Super Stock heads (or MOFOCO equvilant), 218 cam, 40 IDFs, stock heater boxes and quality small flange 1 3/8" 4 into 1 header
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Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[Danwvw]

There are so many combos now that are being built for the type 1 VW engine. It's going to be tough to do one for under $2000 though without going to less expensive carbs. I have had pretty good luck with Samba ad's and Used Dellorto 36mm carburetors. "earthquakes" recommendations make a lot of sense and will save money with keeping it stock on the geometry. I would probably do 74 Stroke with 5.325" rods and stock pushrods and open the case for 92's. With stock pushrods, you can't run over about .400" lift at the rockers though if that? The new Panchito 44 heads from CB performance with the 40mm X 35.5mm valves will make up for lower flowing near stock cams. I would probably get the 54cc chambered Panchito heads for a bus engine or a small displacement bug engine like 92mm or below with the 69mm crank but If going to the 94mm bore it could handle the larger 61cc chambers Panchito Heads and Dual 44 IDF carbs. I built mine to be a 74mm stroke X 88mm bore and had a lot of machine work done like the case inserted which you will need to do on a 1971 AE engine case if not already done. Also, did Port-matched heads new cam new lightweight lifters, full flow and filter oiling, lots of good stuff and rebuilt a pair of used Dellortos 36mm carbs that I bought for $350 it came out under $3000 and it had CB Race H-Beam rods and a CB Super Race CCW crank too. If you cam it a bit it will run cool enough the stock 1971 doghouse will cool it without the expense of an external oil cooler or sump. I recommend the Webcam 118 and stock rockers to save money that cam has more advanced than advertised. You can also come back later and add racing pushrods and 1.25 ratio rockers get the lift up to .460" with this combination.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Teeroy]

Panchitos valves are too big for stock heater boxes
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[modok]

That is a huge question.
A better question is how hard do you want to work on it, the more you do the more work it is.
And, the gearing in the 77 is probably higher, are we building the engine big because that is easier than changing the gearing?

[Danwvw]

[airshac]

[modok]

There are different schools of thought on that.
I have noticed quite a lot of the BUS guys want to build it BIG and turn less RPMS, on the theory that that will be better for longevity.
I feel the opposite. IMO the happy place is 3200-3800 and it is easier to go with that than change it. Sure you CAN change it, but is it easier? probably not.

There is a LOT of "possibilities" these days, but it is pie in the sky. The more you change the more work it is. These panchito heads are kick ass, and the thickwall 92 cylinders are a good idea, lets put a empi crank in an amulinum case.........but, but, I sure am working hard for all that pie.

2007cc with all old school and OE parts, is still probably a heck of a lot easier than making all the aftermarket stuff work, because it just never does fit together as nice and easy as OE parts.

DPR crank and flywheel, WEB camshafts, silverline main bearings, KS or federal rod bearngs, CB H-beam rods, mahle P&c, grant rings, ACN aluminum pushrods, stock rockers AND shafts, PEP valves guides and seats. CB manifolds and oil pump. I have ZERO problems with.
I don't really have any hatred for china, but you will notice I don't endorse many Chinese parts, based on experience. Perhaps I am lucky in such a way that I always get the garbage, but watch out you might be lucky too.

[airshac]

[modok]

I should probably limit myself to the shortblock, my ideas about the rest are kinda particular.

Just as far as the limits of stock cylinder head castings......
You go bigger engine size, or larger bore, the heads are getting too thin for optimum strength and cooling IMO, and try to go larger CC the compression ratio is too high also.
So 74 or 78 stroke, 90.5 bore NO PROBLEM, it's been done for 40 years and well proven.
There is a possibility to go farther but if you should or not, is no so easy to say.
I would consider 74-78 stroke and 90.5 bore to be a good baseline.

DPR has been making stroker cranks from OE cranks for years, very good at it. You can order a crank and flywheel already fitted and balanced and no worries about it.

[bugguy1967]

I honestly don't think a Type 1 is up to the task. Mains are too small, cylinders are too thin, and engine doesn't have enough cooling surface to last like a 2000cc T4. If you sold your T1, you could get $900 or so. Then you'd have about $3000 toward getting yourself a good T4 engine. Cores are cheap. Cases go for $50 sometimes. I just saw two complete T4s for $400. Buy a core, do a basic rebuild, and you'll have the best engine for the job.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine"

[vwracerdave]

I agree. A '77 Bus came with a Type IV engine and should keep a Type IV engine. It is what the transaxle is geared for.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
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[Danwvw]

Well, if it were me I would do a type 4 if I didn't have a nice Type 1 conversion for it for sure. But if OP already has the rear mounts and the tin conversion all done then why not use the 77 which is a nice Bus with the type 1 engine that is less expensive to build and quite frankly a lot more fun to build what with all the possibilities and availability of parts. The 78 year Type 4 was What a 2.0 Liter? 94mm bore X 71mm stroke? More stress on that than a say a type 1 design with 92mm Bore X 76 or 78.4 Stroke that can develop more torque at lower head pressures. Here is a thread where a guy is doing a 92mmX76mm: 2021cc Bus Motor Cam Choice?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

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[airshac]

[FreeBug]

[Danwvw]

Maybe post some pictures of how the rear mount is done. Here is a thread about Type 1 engines in late Bay Window Buses: Installing a Type 1(upright cooling)engine into a Type 4 72+ FAQ and the kits for the tin are available for about $250 from places like ACN.
The first thing to do is to completely tear down the Type 1 engine and see what you have. The first question is how is it mounted does it use the 3 mount holes of the 1971 Bus or universal type 1 case and if so is your engine such a case?

Measure the #1Main Bearing at the flywheel to see if the case has at least 21mm of the thrust bearing width left so it can be align bored and thrust cut for a new #1 Main Bearing. Also have a look at the main bearings saddles etc and measure the current OD for the mains.
This is a good case:

This case could not be saved:

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!