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need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse)
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smitty24
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

OK, I've read countless threads on this. I can't get my setup to work "right enough" with what I have! Don't have the funds right now to throw more correct parts at it.

*Currently have a new H 30/31 I'm trying to use on a stock '65 40 horse and German 009. I have the dreaded hesitation no matter what jets and timing I throw at it. Carb came with 120 main, 120 air, 50 idle and 65 power. I tried a 55 idle and 125 main, still hesitates like mad and runs too rich. What can I do to get this close? Also, is the idle jet the jet that goes straight in or the angled jet? I always thought the power jet was the angled 65 jet they all come with? I've read that the 009 can work with this carb if I run a larger main and throw a little more timing at it. Currently sitting about 10-12* idle and 28-30 full advanced. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Been a while since I messed with a stock(ish) engine.


Last edited by smitty24 on Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 Reply with quote

Disclaimer: I run a 30/31 on a dual port manifold in my 1600cc engine with a vintage German 009. Here are my settings.

There are two brass jets on the right side (right is right of car). The angled one (points slightly towards the rear of the car) is the idle jet (should be the 50). The other one (pointing straight out to the right side of the car) is the power jet (should be the 65), which feeds additional fuel at high throttle/high rpm. The power jet is needed to correct a tendency for the air correction jet to work TOO well at max airflow - it leans the mixture off too much and the power jet corrects this.
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smitty24
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 Reply with quote

I always thought the straight jet was the idle, on a 30/31. I will swap them and see. I've ran this same style carb multiple times on 1600s over the years. Perhaps its giving me more headache since its on a 40 horse and 009. I have no idea what jets are "correct" on this thing. I've adjusted fuel pressure from 3 down to 1.5. Valves .006. Engine is healthy...just has this massive stumble off idle and hard accelerating. Pump is adjusted and provides a solid steady stream of gas. No vacuum leaks anywhere.

I'm only trying to ease up some of the hesitation with slightly richer mixture and extra timing advance. Just not sure what is close and what is too much, for this little 1200.
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smitty24
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me what the best stock distributor would work with the new H30 carb? What about best aftermarket unit (if even a possibility)??

I tried a 113 205k and it didn’t run very well. I have a magnaspark unit I could try but would rather not use that one for this car.

Thanks guys!
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chrisflstf
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

From what I know the H30 doesnt do well with a svda, although that may be subjective.

Also the 50 idle jet is on the side and the 65 is angled back on the carb
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 Reply with quote

chrisflstf wrote:
From what I know the H30 doesnt do well with a svda, although that may be subjective.

Also the 50 idle jet is on the side and the 65 is angled back on the carb


I don't agree with the above:
Cusser wrote:
There are two brass jets on the right side (right is right of car). The angled one (points slightly towards the rear of the car) is the idle jet (should be the 50). The other one (pointing straight out to the right side of the car) is the power jet (should be the 65), which feeds additional fuel at high throttle/high rpm. The power jet is needed to correct a tendency for the air correction jet to work TOO well at max airflow - it leans the mixture off too much and the power jet corrects this.


Rob and Dave's page agrees http://www.vw-resource.com/jets.html
"On the H30/31 carburetor, there are two brass jets on the right side (right is right of car). The angled one (points slightly towards the rear of the car) is the idle jet. The other one (pointing straight out to the right side of the car) is the power jet, which feeds additional fuel at high throttle/high rpm. The power jet is needed to correct a tendency for the air correction jet to work TOO well at max airflow - it leans the mixture off too much and the power jet corrects this.

If you look at the two jets you can see that the (angled) idle jet sits in a protrusion (channel) which continues downwards under the jet, towards the idle and transfer ports in the throat near the butterfly. The power jet sticks straight out to the side, and sits in a protrusion nearer the top of the carburetor - if you remove that jet you can see a drilling straight through the carburetor body to the air correction jet/emulsion tube where the the main fuel supply is delivered into the throat of the carburetor."


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Glutamado also agrees
asiab3 wrote:
Glutamodo, who knows more about carbs than probably anyone else on here, says the H30/31 copies it's idle circuitry from the non-USA 31pict3. The picture below is of the 31pict3, which should be identical to the H30/31. That means that the diagonal rear jet is the idle/pilot jet, and the (0) jet is the "power" auxiliary fuel jet.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There does seem to be a fair amount of confusion on the jet locations. But the diagram above is the only official one I've seen; anyone can go on Paint or similar and add captions to a photo. I confirmed the translation for (3) leerlaufluftdüse myself.
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chrisflstf
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

I just rebuilt my H30 carb and came across this thread, thinking my jets were backwards. I pm'd Andy ( Glutamodo) yesterday as he seems to be the carb guru. Here is his reply

Well, they are both idle fuel jets. They both feed the idle circuit, which was split into two separate pathways for finer emissions control. VW called the added circuit the "additional" or "auxiliary". Names don't really matter, but the added one it is NOT a "power" jet no matter what some people say. They are both part of the idle circuit.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I will swap them today and see how it runs. You can see the jet numbers in the bottom photo. Thanks for the input
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smitty24
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

chrisflstf wrote:
From what I know the H30 doesnt do well with a svda, although that may be subjective.


You mean the SVA, right? SVA and SVDA totally different things.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

Yes, SVA. I misspoke

My post above left out another comment from Glutamodo, which was:

Anyway, the angled one is the 65 and the one on the side is the 50.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

Cusser was right!. I swapped the jets around so the 65 is on the side and the 50 is in the angled port. Motor runs even, smooth and precise now. With it the other way, the motor will start, idle poorly and basically run like crap at lower rpms.

Looks like the info I got from Andy is incorrect. Maybe there are different versions of these?

Thanks guys
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

chrisflstf wrote:
Cusser was right!. I swapped the jets around so the 65 is on the side and the 50 is in the angled port. Motor runs even, smooth and precise now. With it the other way, the motor will start, idle poorly and basically run like crap at lower rpms.

Looks like the info I got from Andy is incorrect. Maybe there are different versions of these?

Thanks guys


Even the blind squirrel finds a nut now and then, and a broken clock is correct twice a day !!!

Remember: I had same on my own Solex 30/31 when I rebuilt it and the engine; my engine also ran way better after getting these right. I didn't realize that the two similar-looking jets were different sizes. Oftentimes manufacturers design in different sizes so dumbies like me don't confuse them.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
I didn't realize that the two similar-looking jets were different sizes. Oftentimes manufacturers design in different sizes so dumbies like me don't confuse them.


Well, they ended up doing exactly that for the 34PICT-3 revision.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

chrisflstf wrote:
Cusser was right!. I swapped the jets around so the 65 is on the side and the 50 is in the angled port. Motor runs even, smooth and precise now. With it the other way, the motor will start, idle poorly and basically run like crap at lower rpms.

Looks like the info I got from Andy is incorrect. Maybe there are different versions of these?

Thanks guys


Everyone around here puts the idle in the straight port. I even did for years Shocked So I tried Cusser's old wisdom and swapped the jets. While doing so, I compared my supplied jetting to a tray of old Solex jets. My supplied (new) jets were rather incorrect. The 50 was actually smaller than my Weber IDF 45 idle jets! The supplied angle jet with the 65 was smaller than 55. Swapped them out for more correct ones, at the Cusser location. Engine ran better! I just need to get the other distributor working now.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

Well, that image quoted above was of a new H30/31PICT. Also the 1970-only 30PICT-3 entries in the Parts Books show an idle cutoff valve (the final time they would use such a device on a pilot jet - no jet size given though) which would have been on the side, plus the other jet being a 65 which would have had to be the angled one.

I've never been much of a fan for emissions-jacked carburetors, that's why I find myself running a 30PICT-1 via an adapter on the 1600DP in my Baja Bug.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

Had the same issue on my old h30/31 setup after I rebuilt it and installed them incorrectly. Cusser came to the rescue then too 👍
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
There are two brass jets on the right side (right is right of car). The angled one (points slightly towards the rear of the car) is the idle jet (should be the 50). The other one (pointing straight out to the right side of the car) is the power jet (should be the 65), which feeds additional fuel at high throttle/high rpm. The power jet is needed to correct a tendency for the air correction jet to work TOO well at max airflow - it leans the mixture off too much and the power jet corrects this.


Thanks for straightening this out. I think a lot of the confusion arises when people go to order their jets at aircooled.net where they say in the description of their pilot jets, "“Make sure the Power Jet (50, in the ANGLED location) is to the rear, and the Idle Jet (65, out the side) is in the front.”

Note they have the nitty gritty correct, as you concluded the 50 does go in the angled position and the 65 in the straight. But also note they have the names reversed. The idle jet is not the one they describe as it is the angled one as Rob and Dave said.

It seems nit picky but I believe most people are like me, they search for “Idle jets” not, “that jet that sits at an angle on the right side of the carb”. I believe the names are supremely important and the confusion aircooled.net has caused by misnaming them has led to like a score of threads here trying to get what should be an easily agreed upon terminology straightened out.


Last edited by metalguy22 on Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

As far as searching goes, you are better off searching for issues related to your specific carb, rather than " pilot jet or " idle jet" which would give you answers on every carb thread available

Dont worry about jet names, only size and location
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

That's simply not so for the reasons I gave unless you think it's best to search online to buy a jet by searching for, "that brass thingy with a 50 stamped in the end that sticks out the side of a H30/31 at an angle". Names make searches easier not harder. Inaccurate ones are what make things harder.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: need help jetting a h/30 with 009 (40 horse) Reply with quote

Here is another excellent thread on this subjetc of Idle/Aux jets, their names, sizes, and locations: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=576411&highlight=h30+31+main+jet+size Also some good info on mains and how to jusdge what idle jets are suitable.
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