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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:24 pm Post subject: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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In looking for a date matching 25hp. I ran across one in the classifieds. The dude had 3 25hp cases. I bought the June of 52 case. I asked if it looked ok to build. The guy said it did. I took his word. It gets here and the right side with the gen stand is nice. The left side looks a different color and corroded holes thru the oil sump sides and every journal so pitted it is just garbage and obviously not a mate to the other side. So question is can a mate up another left side case to this 25hp. Maybe planing and line boring and cam bores matched. Also how early of a case side do I need to match up to the correct dated side. Early 36hp or 25hp only?
I'm so pissed at this dude. Won't answer emails and I paid by money order. Bad thing is I opened up the boxes and only saw the good side and left the dude good feedback and left it boxed up in storage until ready to build it then saw the issues with the other side way later. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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Does it have a GEX sticker on it? |
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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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Lol I heard that about GEX.
With good machining I think a case half can be mated.
All these cases had to be mated while machining anyway.
If both halves need line bored, thrust cut and possibly decking the mating surface to recut cam saddles. I don't see why a non matching case half wouldn't work.
I'm open to hear the problems with this. Also what case half I could use for the 25hp. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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Well, it won't help you now, but may bothers later... did you leave feedback on this guy?
If you can find a shop that will plane the case halves, and re machine it, then I expect it will work fine. That's a lot of work that will probably exceed its value, but if it's important to you, I say go for it. |
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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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I did leave good feedback before I saw the other half of the case. This was over 2 years ago when I bought it. I emailed when I saw the issues with no response back. Feels like I tossed $500 right of the window. |
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Zwitterkafer Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007 Posts: 875 Location: Lanark County, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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A replacement 36hp case half won't hold the smaller diameter 25hp cylinders properly. But you could modify the 25hp half to go to 36hp cylinders all around. Depending on how late the 36hp replacement half is, there could be minor differences to the oil galleries as well. _________________ "Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC |
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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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Zwitterkafer wrote: |
A replacement 36hp case half won't hold the smaller diameter 25hp cylinders properly. But you could modify the 25hp half to go to 36hp cylinders all around. Depending on how late the 36hp replacement half is, there could be minor differences to the oil galleries as well. |
Thanks for that info. I'm going vintage speed with it and boring all 4 to 83's anyway. Going stroker okrasa with it. |
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7045 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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EmpiGT wrote: |
... I'm going vintage speed with it and boring all 4 to 83's anyway. Going stroker okrasa with it. |
love the sound of vintage okrasa motors. what are you doing for exhaust? I do like the abarth sound, but a sebring style would be most awesome i think. _________________ regards
Uli
----------------------------------------
'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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Already have a vintage speed stainless abarth for it. Can't wait to get it all together, and hear it.
Can anyone confirm the use of an early 36 up case half so it has the oil drain in that side. |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6171
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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EmpiGT wrote: |
I'm going vintage speed with it and boring all 4 to 83's anyway. Going stroker okrasa with it. |
I have to ask, why bother with 25hp case then?
25hp cases should be left alone..but thats just an opinion. _________________ drive your split. |
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DDub Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2005 Posts: 306 Location: central pa.
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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sled wrote: |
EmpiGT wrote: |
I'm going vintage speed with it and boring all 4 to 83's anyway. Going stroker okrasa with it. |
I have to ask, why bother with 25hp case then?
25hp cases should be left alone..but thats just an opinion. |
AMEN |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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If you paid with a money order from the post office and sent it through the mail you can go after him for mail fraud. Contact the post office. They usually don't mess around with mail fraud cases. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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DDub wrote: |
sled wrote: |
EmpiGT wrote: |
I'm going vintage speed with it and boring all 4 to 83's anyway. Going stroker okrasa with it. |
I have to ask, why bother with 25hp case then?
25hp cases should be left alone..but thats just an opinion. |
AMEN |
if the case is garbage anyway, why not try to save part of it for the date matching my car. So it's either go all out with it or toss it in a burn pile and watch it glow. That's kind of exciting but not worth the $500 I paid for it. |
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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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splitjunkie wrote: |
If you paid with a money order from the post office and sent it through the mail you can go after him for mail fraud. Contact the post office. They usually don't mess around with mail fraud cases. |
it's now 2 years later. I'm not sure I even have the money order stub anymore. |
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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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sled wrote: |
EmpiGT wrote: |
I'm going vintage speed with it and boring all 4 to 83's anyway. Going stroker okrasa with it. |
I have to ask, why bother with 25hp case then?
25hp cases should be left alone..but thats just an opinion. |
Hey Sled, are you saying that as just preserving a 25hp as a 25hp, or saying it because the case can't handle the added hp? This is my first ever experience with a 25hp and vintage speed equipment. But I do want it to be a good driver with a little more power. I guess I should say this is for a bus, but asked over here. I thought in the split bug section, there would be more people with knowledge of 25hps. |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6171
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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EmpiGT wrote: |
sled wrote: |
EmpiGT wrote: |
I'm going vintage speed with it and boring all 4 to 83's anyway. Going stroker okrasa with it. |
I have to ask, why bother with 25hp case then?
25hp cases should be left alone..but thats just an opinion. |
Hey Sled, are you saying that as just preserving a 25hp as a 25hp, or saying it because the case can't handle the added hp? This is my first ever experience with a 25hp and vintage speed equipment. But I do want it to be a good driver with a little more power. I guess I should say this is for a bus, but asked over here. I thought in the split bug section, there would be more people with knowledge of 25hps. |
yeah I am saying that as preserving the 25hp as a 25hp. Like mentioned they have a smaller bore than 36 hp cases and as soon as you bore it out for 77mm (or 80/83mm) cylinders its no longer fit as a 25hp. There are SO many 36hp cases available, and aside from getting close enough to read the engine number (which could be faked to look like a 25hp) there is nothing to tell them apart.
I understand one half of the case is junk, so I get the thought process of trying to save it..
its one of those 'hindsight is 20/20' situations where 10-20 years from now when decent 25hp cases are next to impossible to find, folks might have wished they didn't modify them... like people cutting up barndoors 15-20 years ago.
just my $.02 _________________ drive your split. |
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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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Thanks for the input, You are probably right Sled. After all the work to put into this case to get it usable, the best bet is to start with an early 36hp and fake the funk on it. Sit this one on the shelf until maybe a good left side is found to make a mate. Or see if I can find a good mag welder that can go to town on the pits and remachine it. From the outside it doesn't look too bad, just that side has had water stand in it and heavily pitted the inside. Some tiny holes all the way thru under the push rods and pits under the main shaft bearings. |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Mismatched 25hp case halves. |
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Darrell Vittone squeezed 180hp out of an aluminum 25hp case.
Another funny story. I was helping a friend build a big bore Okrassa engine he had a 74mm Porsche crank that was on about the 3rd size so we had it turned to a 2" Buick journal and offset it to get 76.5mm strike and used empi hbeam rods. For pistons we used domed 1500 pistons in handshaped barrels. We stuffed it all in a 1958 VW 36hp case someone had modified with center thru bolts that came with a bunch of parts from an old icerace engine. I was talking to Tom Bruch about this telling him what we had done with a bunch of worn out parts feeling pretty good about it. I told him about the weird case and he started to laugh and told me we had just carved up a pre-A Porsche case to build a VW engine.
Go ahead and modify your 25hp case
brad |
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