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dan.a62291
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Cedar City, Utah
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 Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:10 pm Post subject: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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So right now I have a play buggy that is a couple steps down from a class 5 unlimited.
And it just comes down to needing more power than what my 1600 can get me.
After doing some research I think what I want is a 2110. I read that the 90.5 is the strongest bore you can go to other than the 85.5 however I'm not sure how stroking to 82mm will affect the strength of the motor.
I'm starting with 1971 AS case. I'm all ears on suggestions of what would be a good CC to build.
If 2110 is a solid build, what is the best carb for this? I've read that you don't wont to run dual carbs on a baja. but I'm not sure if one will get the job done. anyway I'm just starting so I'm looking for some good info to base this build off of. |
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oldschool5er
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 804
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| dan.a62291 wrote: |
After doing some research I think what I want is a 2110. I read that the 90.5 is the strongest bore you can go to other than the 85.5 however I'm not sure how stroking to 82mm will affect the strength of the motor.
I'm starting with 1971 AS case. I'm all ears on suggestions of what would be a good CC to build.
If 2110 is a solid build, what is the best carb for this? I've read that you don't wont to run dual carbs on a baja. but I'm not sure if one will get the job done. anyway I'm just starting so I'm looking for some good info to base this build off of. |
Nice 90's style ? C5 door slammer. I always liked the way they shaped the rear down hoop to the engine cage. Kind of like a Funco frame. This car looks familiar to me but can't place it just yet.
A lot of this really depends on your budget. You are asking about best bang for the buck with reliability so that really depends on your budget and if you are planning to farm the build out or attempting to do it yourself.
When it comes to off road motors in particular running a stroked engine and bigger cylinders is not an unreliable combination if done right. I would say build what you can afford to do it riight and not cut corners. If you are planning to use 90.5 I would go all the way to 94mm as you will find they will be similar in longevity and you are required to do the same machine work to the heads and case just a different size and the same machining cost.
Now for the crank; just because you are running a stroked crank does not mean it's going to be unreliable or weaken the engine. If you want to run an 82mm crank it is barely going to cost you much more than any other counterweighted crank under that size. You will not cause an unreliable combination using an 82mm stroke either. The combo 82mm x 94mm = 2276cc and will not be more expensive than a 2110cc nor any less reliable. I suggest this because it is a waste of money not going to the larger cc's. Same machining required and that will be a nice chunk of cash to get the heads and case done.
2276cc is a standard size build that most home builders use because of the way it fits is pretty straight forward without much adapting or clearancing. It is even easier if you go to H beam rods and you use B pistons for the 82mm stroke. 94mm with correctly honed cylinders and better rings will last as well as the 90.5. Keep the CR within a range that you can still use pump gas 8:1 to 9:1. Put a decent distributor on it. I don’t even use stock rods anymore as the cost for H beam rods is low enough to make it a good investment and offers better clearance and strength.
A budget determines how well the engine can be built and what other parts would make good additions. What about the Transmission you are running? That makes a difference too on what engine would be best.
Modern C5's are all running water cooled engines now and in fact a junk yard low mileage Ecotec engine, Adapter, exhaust header, and the bits and pieces to put it together will cost less or the same as a well-built stroked engine. I am a AC guy so for me I don't run water cooled in my two Baja's even though I can easily do it, but it is a decision I always suggest to the guys I have built for to make sure they understand both sides of it.
Most big engines I build I put on single 44idf Webers and nothing else. My own personal engines I run dual Webers and never run single. The reason is that I know the dual setups inside and out and have them so dialed in I don't have to mess with them. I have run all different combos and even dry sumped some sets, but single is all I recommend for off road other than sand cars. Weber is the standard for a dirt car unless it is running a watercooled Ecotec or similiar with FI. It used to be Zenith but that carb is just too restricted flow wise for a big engine now days.
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HRE in Westerville,Ohio
Full machine shop with all types of CNC. Rapid prototyping available, CNC Plasma cutting, 3D printing and Laser engraving.
Last edited by oldschool5er on Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| Match the compression to the cam and a single 44 will run ok but leave 15-20 hp on the table over duals but it is much easier. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:29 am Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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I find that extra top end-only hp cited by Vanilla is really most useful in WOT situations like climbing big sand dunes and deep mud bogs. For general offroad tractability I prefer the power curve of a single Weber. Consider that for decades, a 2180 (92mm bore x 82mm stroke) with the above mentioned single 32 Zenith 2bbl carb was by far the winningest combo for 1st overall, including over 700hp trucks and all sizes of dirt bikes.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:04 am Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
| I find that extra top end-only hp cited by Vanilla is really most useful in WOT situations like climbing big sand dunes and deep mud bogs. For general offroad tractability I prefer the power curve of a single Weber. Consider that for decades, a 2180 (92mm bore x 82mm stroke) with the above mentioned single 32 Zenith 2bbl carb was by far the winningest combo for 1st overall, including over 700hp trucks and all sizes of dirt bikes. |
Must be my driving style but I find myself 3k rpm or above most of the time. My motor originally was an 1835 with a pic 34 and a w110 drove it quite a few times like that before it was mine. Then I rebuilt the top end, put on a set of heads and added dual 40s. Didnt find myself missing any torque or ever wanting to go back lol. I'm actually wanting to find another case and put a forged cw crank in it and a bigger cam. I guess I'm partial to the top end since o spemd most of the time up there even on the street. |
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Mal evolent
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Joined: March 31, 2009
Posts: 2912
Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
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no1clyde
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2013
Posts: 365
Location: Elko Nv.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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I am in a small group of guys with Bajas out of Utah even though I am in Nevada and in my bunch we have 6 Bajas and 3 run Subaru 2.2, 1 Ford 4cyl and 2 AC VWs and all have been good cars. Mine is the red one with a Subaru in it. We were in Cedar City Utah in 2015 on our Grand Canyon trip. We have taken all these Bajas all over the place LOL, top pic this year in Saline Valley Cal and the bottom one at White Wash Utah last year.
I like my Subaru and recommend you think about one 
Ed |
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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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Ever think about Turbocharge  runs like N/A until you "step on it"
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'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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dan.a62291
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Cedar City, Utah
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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The frame is a one of kind DannyRice special hahaha..
The reason I'm not going with a Subaru or Ecotech is because I'm afraid of change, and the big reason is that I don't have a ton of money laying around. This build is going to be a kinda project where I spend about 500 a month building it.
So, now I'm pretty sold on doing the 2276. But here are some questions.
Why not the 48 IDF?
VW or Chevy journals?
distributor?
And what I really need is someone to hold my hand through cam and rocker arm decision. |
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bullnerd
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2011
Posts: 64
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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Love the look of your bug!
Is there a build thread anywhere on it?
If not, how about making one here?
Good luck with your new engine. |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| dan.a62291 wrote: |
The frame is a one of kind DannyRice special hahaha..
The reason I'm not going with a Subaru or Ecotech is because I'm afraid of change, and the big reason is that I don't have a ton of money laying around. This build is going to be a kinda project where I spend about 500 a month building it.
So, now I'm pretty sold on doing the 2276. But here are some questions.
Why not the 48 IDF?
VW or Chevy journals?
distributor?
And what I really need is someone to hold my hand through cam and rocker arm decision. |
Umm a Subaru or eco swap would be cheaper then building a 2276 with all new parts. The expensive part will be the trans to handle 200hp. A new as41 case with machine work and a new aluminum raised roof case will be close to $1000 or more alone. $500 for a decent crank then add rods, p/c, heads, valve train..... it goes on lol. I spent around $2500 just rebuilding my top end on my 1835 with mostly empi parts and aa p/c. If I had the fab tools of just do a swap. |
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dan.a62291
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Cedar City, Utah
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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Yeah I can post a couple pictures of the build... I started it when I was 15 so it went through a phase of just garbage.. Now that i'm a little older I have more patience, and that went a long way.
In February I plan on getting a pro comp transmission from CB.
Like i said... I think the VW motor would be a better build for me because of simplicity and I can slowly put it together as I get paid.
I plan on going to either a subaru or ecotech in the future... this car is still an infant haha |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| dan.a62291 wrote: |
Yeah I can post a couple pictures of the build... I started it when I was 15 so it went through a phase of just garbage.. Now that i'm a little older I have more patience, and that went a long way.
In February I plan on getting a pro comp transmission from CB.
Like i said... I think the VW motor would be a better build for me because of simplicity and I can slowly put it together as I get paid.
I plan on going to either a subaru or ecotech in the future... this car is still an infant haha |
I gotcha, my car was built 30 years ago and I got it a year ago. It was my girlfriends dads car and I get limited to what I can do with it lol. Save some money, buy the tools for putting it together and take your time. The bottom end will take the longest, the top end is nothing if you measured right but you will find yourself buying shims or having the cylinders trimmed like I did. I have a vw motor dyno app on my phone with different heads, cans, carbs so I can give you a hp guesstimate when you have an idea of what you want. Its proven to be pretty accurate within a few hp. |
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dan.a62291
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Cedar City, Utah
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| Does anyone have any recommendation of someone who can do the machine work on the case in either vegas or salt lake? |
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NvDan
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2018
Posts: 3
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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If you are interested I have a 2.3 ford Engine with complete setup to put it in your Baja.
Dan
Last edited by NvDan on Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Christian 511x
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Grants pass oregon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| I ran a2275 in my class 5 car for 3 years with no problems. Good motor but not cost effective anymore. I have switched to watercooled motors now, but for your questions on a 2275 build, Chevy journals are smaller than vw, so if you start with vw and spin a bearing bad the crank can be ground down to Chevy rod journal , saves you buying a crank. Also you have less to clearance on the case. You need a good set of heads, dual carbs make good top end power , but I have had problems, broken intake manifolds and some flooding. I ran a single carb on my 3000cc type 4 , very reliable |
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dan.a62291
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Cedar City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| What's a good head? Was looking at the cb 044 heads |
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Christian 511x
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Grants pass oregon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| I ran the wedge port heads from cb performance. |
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Christian 511x
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Grants pass oregon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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| 044 heads should work fine for you |
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bullnerd
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2011
Posts: 64
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Need advise for engine build for Baja Bug |
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"Yeah I can post a couple pictures of the build... "
Whenever your ready Dan. lol!
Love the look of this bug! |
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