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pinetreeporsche
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Joined: June 11, 2009
Posts: 752
Location: Falls Church, VA
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4421
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3803
Location: VA/TN
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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I personally would like to see a kit that adds front wheel drive to my van. Only used for offroading and when I need it.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2797
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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| Buggeee wrote: |
e-con porn.
Batteries not included.  |
I don't really understand what's going on in this photo, but all these threads make me think about the articles in my old Mother Earth News collection about electric car, fuel cell, steam powered (for real), wood-gas powered, homemade ethanol powered, methane powered, and more conversions they were publishing in the late 1970's. If that technology had been getting developed continuously rather than being all-but-abandoned when oil got affordable again, we'd be some place different today.
Most electric car conversions then were, if I remember correctly, using very large starter motors and giant banks of lead-acid deep cells.
The only major thing I don't like about my van is its carbon footprint.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled  https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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dabaron
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018
Posts: 2561
Location: Philly, mang
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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| mikemtnbike wrote: |
I don't really understand what's going on in this photo, |
air cooled VW engine and a large electric motor. they can't be used together so there is nothing happening in that photo.
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1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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SyncroButter
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2016
Posts: 383
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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| dabaron wrote: |
| mikemtnbike wrote: |
I don't really understand what's going on in this photo, |
air cooled VW engine and a large electric motor. they can't be used together so there is nothing happening in that photo. |
Hmmm, I saw the photo and the description "batteries not included" as a nod to creating an internal combustion/electric drive like a diesel electric train engine.
_________________
Grant
In the stable: 1986 Syncro Westfalia/Bostig, 1989 Doka Tristar, 1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1973 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special
Gone but not forgotten: 1989 Porsche 944, 1973 Standard Beetle |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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| shagginwagon83 wrote: |
| I personally would like to see a kit that adds front wheel drive to my van. Only used for offroading and when I need it. |
I have been thinking about this ever since I started on my 4x4 Vanagon project and even more so since I bought another 2wd.
I built my own 2wd electric bicycle and have been looking at parts to make me an electric motorcycle to ride around town.
The technology in this field is progressing so quickly and the costs are coming down considerably.
It's not hard to piece together a system and there are even several places that sell kits.
Sort out how mount a diff and drive the front wheels, bolt your motor to the diff and you're off.
Even with a 35-45kw motor you would need a lot of batteries for any real range without charging
Use some solar on the roof and a little regen to increase the range some and be able to charge a little bit while you are parked.
In an ideal situation it would be nice to be able to run the motor from the engine if you depleted the batteries but that adds to the complexity.
Anything is possible but to make it all seamless would take some real engineering.
Naturally to only use it when you needed the traction and only charge by plugging in would require a lot less batteries and complex systems. |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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| mikemtnbike wrote: |
| The only major thing I don't like about my van is its carbon footprint. |
Maybe... Keep in mind that your re-use of a 35 year old manufactured object is reducing both waste and manufacturing streams.
Jay Brown would be proud!
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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Mikesarge
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2008
Posts: 222
Location: PNW
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SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3119
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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[quote="Jake de Villiers"]
| mikemtnbike wrote: |
| Keep in mind that your re-use of a 35 year old manufactured object is reducing both waste and manufacturing streams. |
Not to be too nit-picky but if I didn't have my van I would still be camping out of a tent, after driving to my camp site in a far more efficient car that I already own.
My van ownership isn't saving the planet nearly as much as my choice to live within 5 miles of my work place.
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'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
| ...Maybe... Keep in mind that your re-use of a 35 year old manufactured object is reducing both waste and manufacturing streams. |
Agree, an often over-looked facet of the equation.
Additionally (at least where I live) an electric vehicle is essentially powered by coal -- we've just moved the smokestack to a location a couple of hundred miles away where we don't have to see it.
Threads like this are a sure sign that winter has arrived. |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4800
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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| pinetreeporsche wrote: |
| I just saw these links to the project by Aston Martin to simplify the conversion of vintage A-M models to electric. |
NOOOOOOOoooooooo! those had such beautiful, glorious sounding engines with cast aluminum castings. sacrilege to put in a quiet, powerful, efficient electric motor.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4421
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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| mikemtnbike wrote: |
| Buggeee wrote: |
e-con porn.
Batteries not included. |
I don't really understand what's going on in this photo... |
I dunno. But threads need pictures. So I threw that one up as I was passing through. I'll take the links to the EV albums posted by another as a good substitute I guess.
So the history of this particular picture is that I had the wife's pickup truck for the day.
I swung through an industrial surplus salvage dealer on the other side of town and picked up that 11 inch GE electric forklift motor for about a hundred bucks.
That's a steal really. It's a beast of a motor to use in an EV conversion if you are of that persuasion. Much overkill for bug. It would be perfect for a bus though.
Then I drove over to UHaul and picked up a dolly to drag home my Super-Beetle-in-a-Basket project from someone who we later learned was related family! Buggin... always a pleasant twist.
Anyway, my grand plan was to use the Super Beetle as a glider for that electric motor. The 1600cc engine was the first part of the basket that I loaded into the truck and after I strapped it down next to the electric motor I sat there staring at them, pondering automotive history, reflecting on the fact that dear Ferdinand's first automobile was an electric battery car, considering the progress of mankind, indulging fond rose-colored memories of my youthful experiences with the aircooled bugs and buses... etc., etc.
Oh how the mind wanders.
So I took a picture to capture it all for me in that moment.
Anyway. Subsequently while I was searching for a wrecked Chevy Volt to salvage the lithium battery pack from - for my Super Beetle EV conversion - I stumbled across a clean, low mileage, perfectly good Chevy Volt for a song, and had my battery car after all (bought not built  ) I spent the winter building that bug engine in my basement and have really been enjoying the Super Beetle as a dual-carbed normally aspirated time machine (built not bought  )
Still, I have held onto that GE motor. I still have that conversion in the back of my mind for some reason. The bug, my Westy, some other sled? Who knows, but the little spot in the back of my head rolls it around as I'm working on these toys thinking batteries could go here... or there... or here. I've put that motor in a number of cars in my head and keeping eyes open on controllers or other nonsense. Just fun to think about.
Rambling... sorry. I've enjoyed the speculation about the picture though!
P.S. ...its still the only picture in this thread lol
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
| Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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Dabbler
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Golden, CO
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:58 am Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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[quote="SCM"]
| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
| mikemtnbike wrote: |
| Keep in mind that your re-use of a 35 year old manufactured object is reducing both waste and manufacturing streams. |
Not to be too nit-picky but if I didn't have my van I would still be camping out of a tent, after driving to my camp site in a far more efficient car that I already own.
My van ownership isn't saving the planet nearly as much as my choice to live within 5 miles of my work place. |
Right. And my van ownership isn't saving the planet nearly as much as my refusal to use jet planes to get around.
However, its certainly better than buying a new conveyance every few years.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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Team WorldTour
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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joetiger 
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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| Ahwahnee wrote: |
Threads like this are a sure sign that winter has arrived. |
Truth. I like the idea of EV's, but I admit that I suffer from range anxiety.
The annual electric/environment conversation always reminds me of Sanchius' legendary post about fuel consumption guilt:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=326736
Why are you even spending a second of your precious finite lifespan worrying about this? Relax and go out and drive your Syncro.
After being in the climate/energy/social-impacts field awhile (20 years researching at a nat'l lab, contributing author to multiple IPCC reports, including the Nobel Peace Prize winning IPCC AR4), the primary conclusion that I've come to is that humankind is going to consume every drop of petroleum, every pound of coal and every ounce of uranium that we can get our hands on.
Whether that gallon is burned in your Syncro today, in a Prius tomorrow, in an aircraft over Europe 2 weeks from now or in a container ship in the Pacific next month is immaterial. At the end of the day, it's still going to both get burned and end up in the atmosphere. Conservation is simply optimizing energy use along the time/use dimension. It's going to get burned anyway, so there is no ethical reason not to optimize along a different dimension, say the Fun dimension, by driving your Syncro.
The second conclusion is that we won't get serious about developing new large-scale energy technologies until things get much worse than they are today. Of course, this path leads you to the outlook that, the more you try to conserve, the longer it takes us to get to our next stage of energy. The "more hybrid than thou" crowd tends to have a hard time with this.
The third is that global population will continue to increase inexorably until it is externally throttled by food, water and density/disease thresholds. The impact here is that when peak oil and even modest levels of GNP growth are both factored in to this, the lifespan of our multi-century coal reserves that everyone's counting on to save our butts, is less much, much less than most people realize.
The bottom line is that, energy-wise, we're hosed and, unless we get that solved very soon, it's going to impact our civilization much more profoundly and rapidly than climate change. Yes, conservation helps (I personally commute more by foot/bike/bus than by car), but it's only a band-aid. To really put things in perspective, read this nice future energy options talk by CalTech's Nathan Lewis entitled "Powering the Planet" (warning large, 9MB, but it's worth it): http://eands.caltech.edu/articles/LXX2/powering.pdf
Basically, unless you are working on energy replacement technology, all you are doing is dancing on the after-deck of the Titanic.
Whether you dance slow or fast makes absolutely no difference, so you might as well have fun and dance fast.
So relax and go out and have fun driving your Syncro.
And be sure to post cool stories and nice pictures here of your adventures so we can enjoy them too.
Think of it as getting even more value out of your gallon of petrol.
These are the good old days...
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4098
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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Sorry, but I still think that's about the stupidest thing I've ever read. 
"Things are bad, so let's just make them worse and dump the whole business on the next generation. They'll have to find a solution when we've used up all the easy energy and return to wood fired technology.
Don't worry your silly little head, go out and have fun. Hell, buy the biggest truck you can find, burn energy as quick as you can! That will bring a better future quicker!"
The real bottom line to the problem is greed.
"How can we convince people to consume every erg now so we can get rich?" "Conservation is like leaving money in the ground, sell people on the idea of overconsumption!" "So what if it destroys the environment? I'll have my yacht and ten palatial homes!" "Besides, the rich can always move away from the mess."
"So keep on breeding, keep on consuming, don't worry about tomorrow; and remember commercials are always right!"
Yes, we drive a Syncro for vacations, and yes I'm a product of my generation and love to drive, but we've also taken steps to reduce everywhere else we can.
Energy efficiency and clean energy production will be striven for by the forward thinking intelligent, even in the face of ignorance and greed.
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Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
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mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2797
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Electric conversions-- on the way? |
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Population growth- that's where Sanchius does especially nail it even if I do otherwise agree with Ms. Taboo, I will continue to both have fun and try to be the change I want to see in the world.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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Buggeee
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Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4421
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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