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glenn87
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Richmond Va
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:55 am Post subject: Horizon blue question |
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| trying to find out exactly what color is horizon blue is. the paint mix formula is not available and all samples I've gotten are gray. the question is is the color gray or blue? thanks |
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EmpiGT
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 2597
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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Sample pic from the paint and interior section, looks pretty blue to me.
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glenn87
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Richmond Va
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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| thats what i'm thinking but cant find a match . unless someone has a small scrape or loose part with that color to match at paint shop |
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Cour6396
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Vancouver, Wa
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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Glasurit has the exact formula in 55 solvent.
Depending on lighting, it can look blue in one photo, and gray in another. |
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Cour6396
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Vancouver, Wa
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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Look how gray it looks in direct sunlight! |
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EmpiGT
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 2597
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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| I think the one Cour posted is closer to correct appearance than the one I posted up above from the tech pages. |
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Cour6396
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Vancouver, Wa
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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| The issue with colors like this, is the first toner to be “removed” from colors, is the red faced blues. When the sun “uses” its harmful uv, it bakes reds or red faced toners out of colors. When this happens to the Horizon blue, it turns gray. This color only has a few ounces of the blue in it. Most of the mix is black and white, and a touch of an oxide yellow. Pretty bland formula, but it sure looks nice when done right. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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| Cour6396 wrote: |
| The issue with colors like this, is the first toner to be “removed” from colors, is the red faced blues. When the sun “uses” its harmful uv, it bakes reds or red faced toners out of colors. When this happens to the Horizon blue, it turns gray. This color only has a few ounces of the blue in it. Most of the mix is black and white, and a touch of an oxide yellow. Pretty bland formula, but it sure looks nice when done right. |
That is largely not true of modern toners....as many of the red pigments have gone to synthetics with much less UV fade sensitivity. This is why.....so many of the older red colors and colors that have a red component in the formula are very, very hard to match.
In some cases....they can be impossible to EXACTLY match....because the ingredient that creates a specific reflected wavelength to produce the hue.....may be non-existent.
In the case of this particular blue in this thread.....and virtually any color that is considered a "tint"....meaning it has the vast majority of its formula being made of white (a tone is a color whose base is largely black)......the main vehicle for color change with lighting change (called a metamerism.....a metarmeric color)......is the white.
White is not a color. The color we see as white is created by reflection of the entire light spectrum mixed. If you break down ANY white paint, ink or coating to its pigment components......you will find there are always elements of other colors in it.
Its very hard to make or get a PURE white made with ONLY a single whitening pigment like calcium or titanium....so they have lots of admixtures in them....talc etc.....all of which lend a tinge of color....so the more white you have in a formula the nore prone the color is to ...."light shifting"....or metamerism.
And this is not even getting into the other color impurities that will be in the other colorants in the paint mix. Very few or any of those are EXACTLY "single pigment" colorants either......though the paint companies try very hard to make them that way. Ray |
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Cour6396
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Vancouver, Wa
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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| With water borne, the toners are encapsulated in a plastic, so they won’t bleed or dilute. If you mix a white, and don’t spray it right away, the plastic will erode, leaving it to bleed and mtemorph in the can or cup. Not conducive to getting matches superb. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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| Cour6396 wrote: |
| With water borne, the toners are encapsulated in a plastic, so they won’t bleed or dilute. If you mix a white, and don’t spray it right away, the plastic will erode, leaving it to bleed and mtemorph in the can or cup. Not conducive to getting matches superb. |
Yes!....a lot of people do not know details like this! The water based systems can have problems that solvent based systems rarely have. Once you add actual WATER into a chemical compound system (as compared to something that is water soluable but not actually made with water)......electrochemistry of the ingredients starts to come into play. Water....even distilled or DI water is an electrolyte.....or will eventually become one.
What you described.....the barrier coatings on the pigments "eroding" away.....is caused by time and PH change in the water....which is an electrolytic change.
The encapsulants are there....to keep the different positive and negative polarities between the ingredients....from reacting when they connect through the water....and causing various ingredients to attract and clump together. It keeps the ingredients suspended....where they can react and reflect light....keeping the color formula more uniform.
But...as the PH of the water base changes it causes certain particles in the paint to react....further changing PH. At some point....less than perfect encapsulant coating allows leakage into the particles that are encapsulated and they react quickly and things speed up....clumping....viscosity change.....and/or color shifts.
Since base white pigments like titanium and calcium are both metals.....they are very PH/electrolytically reactive. Ray |
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glenn87
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Richmond Va
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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| is diamont paint water or something else store says polyester never sprayed it before but sample on spray out card did ok |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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| glenn87 wrote: |
| is diamont paint water or something else store says polyester never sprayed it before but sample on spray out card did ok |
It says solventborne if you bother to Google it.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-a...flyIoM95AM
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glenn87
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Richmond Va
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Horizon blue question |
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| "In 1970 R-M launched Onyx HD®, the first waterborne paint system. R-M products meet or exceed factory finish standards and have earned widespread acclaim for superior appearance, ease of use, durability, color matching and profitability. The brand includes Onyx HD®, Uno HD®, Diamont® and Carizzma® paint systems." per basf website thats why i asked |
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