82 air-cooled Vanagon

[ryanjames]

hello there folks, any help with my question is most appreciated. I ll give you the back story.

about a year and half ago, I picked up a lovely ol gal. an 82 air cooled, fuel injected vanagon. it needed a clutch, and had been sitting, but ran fine before it was parked. was the story from the owner. well, today, I am picking up my vanagon, all this time later, after having the clutch replaced and some smaller maintenance items, including the rubber fuel hoses being done. now, the problem. about 3 weeks ago, when the mech. told me she was ready, the van was cutting out at temperature, and he could nt keep it running. I can t help but think he may be zero`d in on the fuel injection unit, and I cant help but think, if it sat for some time, its only sucking in crap from the tank ? he did replace the fuel injectors by the way, and I m going to try and nurse her home, the 30 kms. wish me luck. is there any gremlins that in this year and engine combo with the fuel injection, I should be aware of, before I start into the fuel tank ? he was thinking that it was a computer tuning issue, but I really don't know. I will know more later, when I ve got the ol girl home, and hopefully not on the back of a tow truck. thank you very much for any advice, and I will report back later with the inaugural voyage home. regards. ryan . merry Christmas folks !

[dobryan]

Like you said it is 36 years old and sat. Who knows what the fuel and tank looks like? You can hope the mechanic took a look at the fuel and filter.
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[djkeev]

Please don't take offense, I'm thinking that you posted from a phone?
I broke apart the thought patterns to make it easier to read and to help us understand your situation better.

Stalling when warm can often be compromised vacuum bits sucking in unmetered air.
Make sure that your boots are all on and that they, as well as hoses, aren't cracked or broken.

Anyway........
Happy Trails!
I am hoping for much success!

[ryanjames]

ok, thank you guys for the info so far. so I went to pick up the van. started up, warmed up, and drove off nicely, blowing a bit of blue smoke. the smoke vanished after driving for a few minutes, and she drove great. no problems coming home. stopped in to show the wife what she is working for and let it idle for 8 mins or so. up to that point, the trip was about 20 mins of good driving. left the wife, and she blew really good blue smoke going down the road. dissipated again. got home, put it in reverse to back up and I stalled it. tried cranking over, and could nt get her going. brand new battery also. engine was smoking blue out of the vents a bit more. I ve got her on charge now. mech. said this is what was happening, could nt restart after warm. in fact, he said it would die on him, and then no restart. it only died on me, when trying it in reverse up a hill. its the fact that the battery cannot restart it, that has me worried. my gut put in new fuel filter, oil filter, fuel injectors, intake manifold sleeve, intake manifold gasket set, cylinder head temp sensor, he did flush the fuel system. replaced injector seals, intake tubes and gaskets... he was at a loss, and mentioned he is convinced its to do with the DIGIJET fuel injection system and mass airflow sensor...SO, with that being said, does this sound familiar to anyone ? is the engine seized ? my wife working for the van, was a joke by the way... thank you again ANYONE, with a sliver of info that ll get this ol gal back to normal. peace. ryan. OH, I should mention the compression is good, and the mech said the blue smoke is likely corrosion around the rings as It was sitting...

[jismay]

First of all, find a new mechanic.

These are VERY simple fuel injection systems. Unless someone has opened up and played with the AFM (NOT a mass air-flow sensor at all), then the fuel/air metering should be fairly reasonable. If it is running as good as you say then the ECU and AFM are unlikely to be at fault.

I would double-check all the engine loom grounds as well as the battery ground and the transmission ground.

Also, check all the vacuum lines and make sure there are no leaks, etc.

As far as the smoke goes, its either running extremely rich, or it is burning oil. It probably has stuck oil rings from sitting. A compression test alone isn't a guarantee that the rings are OK.

I would suggest having someone who really knows and understands type 4 engines as well as the DIGIFANT fuel injection to pull the engine apart and take a good look. Pulling the heads/piston/cylinders might seem extreme, but its probably the best choice for resolving the smoking issue.
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[Wildthings]

Stalling when hot and then not restarting is a typical Temperature Sensor II issue. You can try grounding the wire that runs from the ECU to the sensor out to the engine block and see if that solves the issue.

I believe the fuel injection system on an air cooled Vanagon is considered an L-jet system and not a Digijet system. It certainly is not a Digifant.

[Buggeee]

Get the Bentley Vanagon Repair Manual right away.

It is the official factory repair manual. It is the best mechanic, but it will need your hands and tools to get the work done. It will lead you through a full troubleshooting of the FI system with a simple multimeter, basic tools, and a twenty dollar "noid light" kit you can get on Amazon or at Harbor Frieght, etc. You will get to know the names of the parts and the functions they perform.

Digijet Fi system is on watercooled.

If it is air-cooled, it is AFC, and I have also seen the word Jetronic on a spare ECU I have.

The FI system is not programmable and cannot be tuned in the ECU. The Airflow meter/sensor (AFM) can be tuned in a mechanical sense but does not need it if it has not been played with. It can wear out, though, by way of a scratch developing in the carbon strip of a potentiometer in it, which can be tested with a multimeter as guided in the Bentley repair manual. If that is bad, it needs an AFM. If not, it doesn't.

Because this FI is air flow controlled (AFC), as measured by the AFM, any unmetered air not passing through the AFM will cause trouble. That means any crack or loose rubber in the intake system is a gremlin. The rubber parts are not expensive and I just replaced everything, absolutely everything made of rubber. Hoses, throttle body seal, that S-shaped thing, all of it. And, I found cracks in every single piece I took off. It's just old and brittle at this point. No escaping it really so just knock that out. It can all be accessed from looking down into the engine compartment through the hatch so easy peasy.

It might be the basics too, like timing, or a distributor, etc. It might not be fuel injection at all. Take your time with your Bentley manual and it will get found.

Mine sat for more than a decade before coming home and smoked at first too. Then I ran a tank with Seafoam additive and it melted the gunk out of the piston rings and it stopped smoking altogether. The exhaust is clear now.

Good luck, enjoy the process, be methodical, and post pictures!
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[jismay]

[ryanjames]

thank you guys very much for the advice. I will get the Bentley manual. I gave her a much needed bath yesterday, and she cleaned up well. will post pictures soon. thank you again. ryan

[ryanjames]

so...some more to the story... I took her out today, and she drives well, at highway speed, she sings. there is the nagging issue of the no start when warm. I will say this, I m no mechanic but have some experience... this thing feels flooded when warm. by that I mean, ,I have to keep the foot all the way to the floor to get anywhere with her. ...almost as if she is giving an over fuel situation. over fuel when warm ? a too rich condition ? here are some pictures of the van. pre wash and after wash. I also have this bench in the back that I think is toast. I need a full bench back there. the gas gauge is not working, and I put 85 Canadian dollars in her at 1.41 premium. it took 160 L.. ...ok, still trying to up load photos. not the best system. am also still looking for the Bentley manual. thank you guys. ryan[/img]

[Wildthings]

Did you check out your TSII sensor that I posted about above? A failed sensor matches your symptoms exactly.

[ryanjames]

no sir. no TS2 temp sensor check yet, as I do not have a Bentley manual YET, and am just getting use to driving it and such. I shall google how to check that one out though, I DO THANK you for your response. my next mission, is this very one. after I pull myself from cleaning her up. I m a natural cleaner... now just to try and show you guys some pics...

[Wildthings]

Ratwell.com is a very good resource for your rig as an aircooled Vanagon is not much different from a Fuel Injected, Type 4 powered Bay Window Bus.

You should also check out the Pro Training Manual for the FI Bay in the Samba Technical Section.

[ryanjames]

ok, finally got the pics up. this is the old gal. she washed up well, the before and after pics, and she is a keeper. the rear seat, not sure what they ve done here, but I do need a rear folder, and will be taking this out. I don't think this is workable. wildthings, when you say about grounding out the sensor, is the sensor necessary to run ? ? ? is it by passable ? anyways, I m going to find the best way to test that thing, hopefully today...still a little timid to get under the hood.

[Wildthings]

A hot engine will run okay (but maybe a little lean) with a grounded out sensor wire but you will have a hard time getting a cold engine to start and it will be bitchy to drive for the first few minutes after you do get it going.

[tjet]

Nice van.

Your symptom sounds like a weak fuel pump.

[ryanjames]

thank you, I m digging this van. rock on.

[Stuartzickefoose]

Was gonna offer to help when I fly back into Seattle next week. Then that brown ....

(Same color as my van, and they haunt me...)

Sounds like it needs a ts2 to me as well. $30 from bus depot if you do.


Seriously though, you’re not to far from me if you want a hand. Give me a holler, my phone numbers in the signature line, just below...
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[ryanjames]

another day with the beauty... and now discovered some rust in all the usual spots. I don't think too bad though, and likely repairable. cleaning her up some more and taking out the rubber. prefer the noise on the inside, like an old piston fighter. also, not water gets trapped under the rubber and you can see what your dealing with. the floor is SOLID, but there is some issue s to deal with down the road. thank you STUART, for your offer, might just get you in on the project. for beer...

[ryanjames]

is the TSII the same as the cylinder head temp sensor ?

I ve found the AFC manual on samba, and that is going to be a good source.

thank you again guys for any help
ryan