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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9895 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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Here is one of mine. I have long heard and followed the advice to "properly" break in a fresh motor and use conventional oil at first for this purpose.
I suddenly found myself far from home with the need to quickly install a new head, 2 new cyls and pistons on one side of a high mileage stock 2.1 Westy. Once I found the parts it went smoothly and I finished up at the end the day before I was to start a 6,000 trip. The only oil I had was Synthetic. I drove around local streets for about 1/2 hour to make sure all was good to go. The very next morning I needed to drive 400 miles on high speed roads to meet my wife at the airport in another city. I was doing so many things against conventional wisdom that I expected trouble.
1. only changed 2 pistons, so prolly different weights than the other 2, not balanced, bad bad bad.
2. synthetic oil, dooming any hope of proper ring seating, bad bad bad
3. driving at somewhat constant speed for many hours with fresh rings, bad bad bad
So, what were the results?
No problems, didn't use any oil in the first 1000 miles, still doesn't 25,000 miles later. Recently drove it coast to coast using less than a quart. Would I do any of those wrong things again, given a choice? NO
Any other stories?
Mark |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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The web has made it incredibly efficient at disseminating bad information, and no shortage of those willing to do it. _________________ .ssS! |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10347 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:44 am Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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So during normal use, with a properly functioning engine, does the WBX typically see more oil at the rings-cylinders than an inline engine?
Mark: do you think you'd see much difference in compression between the two banks of cylinders?
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9895 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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That was one of my concerns, but I was under the gun and did what I had to do. I'll test the compression one of these days.
Mark
Vanagon Nut wrote: |
......
Mark: do you think you'd see much difference in compression between the two banks of cylinders?
Neil. |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10347 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
That was one of my concerns, but I was under the gun and did what I had to do. I'll test the compression one of these days.
Mark
Vanagon Nut wrote: |
......
Mark: do you think you'd see much difference in compression between the two banks of cylinders?
Neil. |
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Totally understand; I recall your story! Was curious if a compression test would reveal anything in terms of how well the new rings seated. But then the other bank has more miles....
Not to side track but I too dutifully did the dyno oil, vary engine speeds, WOT/coast ring seating thing on the ABA I rebuilt. We'll see if or how much oil it uses. Those 2.0 engines can be known to consume even when factory new.
The aspect that sticks in my mind is BMEP and how using it is supposed to help seat the rings on a new or rebuilt engine. But if the WBX typically sees more lubrication at rings/cylinders, that might make ring seating moot? And, the engine might typically get pushed harder than an inline in a lighter car. I'm sure driving up and down hills in Europe must've helped seat the rings on your WBX. Anyways.....
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9776 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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Not much of a story but I used classic break-in driving behavior on my GoWesty rebuild - if nothing else it was a bit of fun to drive like that. Did not use any special break-in oil.
50,000+ miles later oil usage is minimal to nil. |
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the joker Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006 Posts: 1287
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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I once had a homeless/ drunk guy , try to "break in" to steal conventional oil , so he could "break in " his engine correctly |
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Love My Westy Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 1835
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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I got to do the original break-in in Dec, 1986. Changed out the original oil at 500 miles after varying my speeds from 40 up to 60 mph. Must have worked, I have 160,000 miles and she still runs great on the original engine. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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Thinking back on my first drives after re ringing my 2.1 WBX engine.
I used a basic "dino" oil, nothing special.
My first trip was four or five miles to Dairy Queen for Ice Cream with the Grandkids.
We came home, loaded the vehicle to the Gills and headed West.
Initially the trip was on State and County roads for maybe 30 miles. Some fast, some slow, stops, etc.
I got on I-78, crossed the Delaware and headed West.
Blew a radiator hose in Eastern Pa just before Allentown, hasty exit off I-78 and made repairs.
I then drove back roads and eventually 222 into Reading Pa.
Spent the next two nights at my daughters as I went over the entire vehicle getting ready for a run to Montana.
Left Reading and took State and local highways NorthWest through the State picking up I-80 out near Lewisburg Pa.
From there we took I-80 to Chicago and then NorthWest up to Fargo and into Montana.
Anyway...... this engine does not burn a drop of oil. In 30,000 miles I've never added engine oil between oil changes.
I didn't do anything "special". I was heavily loaded and didn't run the Interstates for a day or so choosing backroads instead. These hilly backroads with towns and stop signs/lights probably provided the hard on and off loading the piston rings need to seat properly.
I did change the oil out near Chicago. I purchased a small oil drain Pan at a WalMart.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9520 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:31 am Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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Love My Westy wrote: |
I got to do the original break-in in Dec, 1986. Changed out the original oil at 500 miles after varying my speeds from 40 up to 60 mph. Must have worked, I have 160,000 miles and she still runs great on the original engine. |
LoveMyWesty this extremely unique 35year 1-owner active Samba member situation is interesting.
When a vehicle is brand new, break-in is not just the engine, it's every lubricated component in the whole drivetrain. All the newly manufactured rotating and sliding components are un-burnished; CVs, transaxle, wheel bearings, shifting, slider hubs, synchros. And of course, piston rings, camshaft, followers. All these lubricated metal surfaces that move relative to each other are getting rid of their high-spots (asperities) by either breaking them off (contaminating the lubricant) or smearing them down. The 'break-in regime' of varying low speeds, never lugging etc has a few main goals:
1) Flushing out the contamination from the manufacturing/assembly process.
2) Breaking off the high spots (further contaminating the lubricant) then flushing that out too
3) Mashing down the high spots (where a particle does NOT break off into the lubricant)
4) Gentle driving minimizes further damage during this process. Considering you KNOW that your lubricant is contaminated - you wanna dump it out ASAP, so you 'go easy' during this contaminated stage. (right?)
5) There are also heat-cycling concerns (that I am not clear on or convinced on ---yet). Maybe others can add detail to that.
Mainly I think the "varying" thing is simply to get you to shift between 3rd & 4th more often than normal; rather than drone on in 4th for a long time.
--->Some folks think droning on and lugging causes 'false brinnelling' on the 4th gear idler and mainshaft, dooming it to a shorter lifetime, thus advise against it. If you buy a "new 4th gear" or new mainshaft for example, don't go on a long freeway trip for break-in. In 3rd gear, the 4th idler is spinning free on it's needle bearing. In 4th gear, 3rd gear idler is spinning free on it's needle bearing. The goal, is to 'spin the new 4th gear on its needle bearing' during break-in. Consequently that means..... "drive in 3rd" during break-in as much as you can. So take a long gentler backroads tour, where you might drive equal miles on 3rd & 4th gear.
==== OK, here come the transaxle lifetime questions ======
This is a rare opportunity to have any contact with a single-owner (--->Love My Westy).
1) Can you describe your transaxle maintenance regime during this 160,000 miles? Per the Bentley (which declines to advise changing the lubricant)? Or did you go 'all fanatic' and change it? Do you remember miles/intervals?
2) Are you cognizant of 'engine lugging' and can you describe your driving style with regards to engine lugging (or lack of concern with regards to 'lugging')?
OK dang I typed another book on transaxle concerns, and OP wants to know about "engine break-in".
I'd better step away from the keyboard.
It's sunny here and blue skies, I'm going outside...... _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: WBX break-in stories, or lack of break-in stories |
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He never changed oil but rebuilt the box every year.
Happy New Year Sodo!
_________________ .ssS! |
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