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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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Danwvw wrote: |
Well, the cheapest and the easiest thing to do is to just rebuild what you have very very close to being stock. Just buy whatever parts are needed. Probably less than $3000 total cost provided you assemble and install it yourself. Have a good machine shop tell you what is needed and do the machine work.
That 1800 is a nice motor but sounds like all you need is something to live in and drive around town in which case a stock one would fit the bill. |
Dan - I think he may find a blued crank which means the webs in the case will be warped. Once that happens even a line bore won't solve it. Until that case is apart he won't know what is there, and it will take a competent shop to even know what to look for. The key is that they found filings and glitter in the oil as well as the audible knock. FWIW reading this post, I never knew how good we had it back in the early 1980's when we could walk in to warehouses on Friday afternoon, pick up a low mile AE case, align bore it to the first cut, throw a factory reground cam in it with new lifters, port and install new factory heads, and by Monday morning be driving it to work - and it lasted faithfully 5 or 6 years of daily driving. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12399
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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jacobcallaghan wrote: |
Hello samba people!
Sadly I found poor daisy's engine is blown. (1970 1600cc) Looks like I rod knock. Real loud. May have blown a bearing and many other things. I have not split the case yet. I am currently located in cascade ID
....
Happy New Year! |
There is a pretty active acvw scene in Boise I believe. Have you hit up any shops there?
Btw your engine sounds terrible. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was about to throw a rod. |
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Manfred58sc Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009 Posts: 3382
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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SG-Mon is dead right about the 20K mile lifespan of hopped up, larger bore combinations. There is a grand canyon sized difference between an engine built for real world driving and weekend warrior, car show engines. I still maintain he would be better off stock, single carb using the best available parts than some large cc combination where one compromise after another will shorten the life span. And what for??? so he can go slightly faster up a hill? Still be the slowest car on the interstate where the average speed is 90mph ? Make it even harder to tune the engine on a nice hot day where the ethanol fuel is happily boiling away in the float bowl ?
I know that its way easier to go "catalog" on an engine these days than build a proper,stock engine. But based on his lifestyle and desires stock is the best course of action. He will learn the hard way I'm afraid. _________________ Fat chick owner/operator |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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richparker wrote: |
[email protected] wrote: |
richparker wrote: |
[email protected] wrote: |
Good Morning Everyone and Happy New Year. From what I can tell, my best advice would be to buy a brand new longblock and install your top end parts. My longblocks are built using about 20 different manufacturers parts as I like to use good parts that don't fail.
I think my 1776 street sleeper longblock would be perfect for your application as you can use all the stock top end parts. It puts out 75hp and 95ft/lbs of torque. I test run each engine to break in the cam and lifters, adjust the valve, check for good oil pressure and no leaks.
https://www.mofoco.com/item/Street_Sleeper_Series_I_90_5mm_Bore_BE1776SS/4037/c71
Let me know what you think,
Roy |
A $3000 long block?!? Ya don’t say...
If you do need a new case you can buy the aluminum ones already machined for larger pistons. Since you already have dual carbs I’d go with a 94mm piston which would make a 1914cc. Power and reliability.
Nothing wrong with a 1600 or a 1776, but the power of a 1914 would be good for you at altitude. Good luck. |
Well, for a brand new 1776 longblock(including the case), counterweighted crank, lightened flywheel, W90 cam, ported and polished heads with 37.5 x 32 stainless steel valves.....do you know any company building one cheaper? Oh....and a one year, unlimited miles warranty. |
Roy, my post was not to knock you. I posted several pages ago that I thought buying or building a long block for $3k was possible. Other members replied that I was crazy and there was no way that could happen. Your link proves otherwise, thanks for posting it. |
Ah ha!! No worries, I know that some people think my prices are too expensive and some people wonder how I can do it so inexpensively. The reason why I can sell brand new engines as inexpensively as I can is for the following reasons. One, I do all my own machine work in house. Two, I buy all my parts in bulk and spend enough that I don't pay shipping costs. Three, I make my own cylinder heads from scratch(which no one else in the country does) so my base cost is lower than anyone else. Four, I build 90% of the engines personally and my father builds the other 10%.....and we don't pay ourselves very much so the labor cost is also very low. If I had to hire someone to build the engines, my labor cost per engine would double or triple..... _________________ Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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Manfred58sc wrote: |
SG-Mon is dead right about the 20K mile lifespan of hopped up, larger bore combinations. There is a grand canyon sized difference between an engine built for real world driving and weekend warrior, car show engines. I still maintain he would be better off stock, single carb using the best available parts than some large cc combination where one compromise after another will shorten the life span. And what for??? so he can go slightly faster up a hill? Still be the slowest car on the interstate where the average speed is 90mph ? Make it even harder to tune the engine on a nice hot day where the ethanol fuel is happily boiling away in the float bowl ?
I know that its way easier to go "catalog" on an engine these days than build a proper,stock engine. But based on his lifestyle and desires stock is the best course of action. He will learn the hard way I'm afraid. |
The engine I recommended will go 75,000+ miles, no problem, as long as oil changes, and valve adjustments are done.....and provided the fuel mixture is correct and timing stays at 27 degrees total advance.
I will take the pepsi challenge against ANYONE'S stock engine on longevity. _________________ Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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[email protected] wrote: |
Manfred58sc wrote: |
SG-Mon is dead right about the 20K mile lifespan of hopped up, larger bore combinations. There is a grand canyon sized difference between an engine built for real world driving and weekend warrior, car show engines. I still maintain he would be better off stock, single carb using the best available parts than some large cc combination where one compromise after another will shorten the life span. And what for??? so he can go slightly faster up a hill? Still be the slowest car on the interstate where the average speed is 90mph ? Make it even harder to tune the engine on a nice hot day where the ethanol fuel is happily boiling away in the float bowl ?
I know that its way easier to go "catalog" on an engine these days than build a proper,stock engine. But based on his lifestyle and desires stock is the best course of action. He will learn the hard way I'm afraid. |
The engine I recommended will go 75,000+ miles, no problem, as long as oil changes, and valve adjustments are done.....and provided the fuel mixture is correct and timing stays at 27 degrees total advance.
I will take the pepsi challenge against ANYONE'S stock engine on longevity. |
Roy - I know you build good engines at a fine price but I have a question. If the 1776 you recommend will last 75,000+ miles, that will take at least 4 to 15 years to get there. Why do you only warranty for 1 year and not say 36 months / 36,000 miles on the long block? That would seem more appropriate on an engine you say will go 75,000 + miles. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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SGKent wrote: |
[email protected] wrote: |
Manfred58sc wrote: |
SG-Mon is dead right about the 20K mile lifespan of hopped up, larger bore combinations. There is a grand canyon sized difference between an engine built for real world driving and weekend warrior, car show engines. I still maintain he would be better off stock, single carb using the best available parts than some large cc combination where one compromise after another will shorten the life span. And what for??? so he can go slightly faster up a hill? Still be the slowest car on the interstate where the average speed is 90mph ? Make it even harder to tune the engine on a nice hot day where the ethanol fuel is happily boiling away in the float bowl ?
I know that its way easier to go "catalog" on an engine these days than build a proper,stock engine. But based on his lifestyle and desires stock is the best course of action. He will learn the hard way I'm afraid. |
The engine I recommended will go 75,000+ miles, no problem, as long as oil changes, and valve adjustments are done.....and provided the fuel mixture is correct and timing stays at 27 degrees total advance.
I will take the pepsi challenge against ANYONE'S stock engine on longevity. |
Roy - I know you build good engines at a fine price but I have a question. If the 1776 you recommend will last 75,000+ miles, that will take at least 4 to 15 years to get there. Why do you only warranty for 1 year and not say 36 months / 36,000 miles on the long block? That would seem more appropriate on an engine you say will go 75,000 + miles. |
Good question. When I test run and tune each engine, I run them for 2-4 hours on my test stand. I set the timing, adjust the carb(s), break in the cam and lifters, check for good oil pressure and no leaks. 90% of all failures will happen in that time period(if I did something wrong)
The other 10% of failures will happen in the first year. After a year, there are too many variables that can happen that are outside of my control. The clutch fails on the car, bad gas, someone messes with the timing to make it run "better", fuel mixture gets changed, someone decides to put really cool looking $200 wires on their engine and knocks the dist, unknowingly changing the timing.....I've seen a lot of crazy things in the last 30 years and I can't warranty all of them. _________________ Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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SGKent wrote: |
[email protected] wrote: |
Manfred58sc wrote: |
SG-Mon is dead right about the 20K mile lifespan of hopped up, larger bore combinations. There is a grand canyon sized difference between an engine built for real world driving and weekend warrior, car show engines. I still maintain he would be better off stock, single carb using the best available parts than some large cc combination where one compromise after another will shorten the life span. And what for??? so he can go slightly faster up a hill? Still be the slowest car on the interstate where the average speed is 90mph ? Make it even harder to tune the engine on a nice hot day where the ethanol fuel is happily boiling away in the float bowl ?
I know that its way easier to go "catalog" on an engine these days than build a proper,stock engine. But based on his lifestyle and desires stock is the best course of action. He will learn the hard way I'm afraid. |
The engine I recommended will go 75,000+ miles, no problem, as long as oil changes, and valve adjustments are done.....and provided the fuel mixture is correct and timing stays at 27 degrees total advance.
I will take the pepsi challenge against ANYONE'S stock engine on longevity. |
Roy - I know you build good engines at a fine price but I have a question. If the 1776 you recommend will last 75,000+ miles, that will take at least 4 to 15 years to get there. Why do you only warranty for 1 year and not say 36 months / 36,000 miles on the long block? That would seem more appropriate on an engine you say will go 75,000 + miles. |
What was the manufacturer's warranty period on a Type 1 powered bus? Maybe 12,000 miles or one year whichever came first?
I think my 1991 Vanagon only had a 24,000/24 month powertrain warranty. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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3 years, 36 months is common against DEFECTS from top tier builders. Evem 24 months, 2 years is better than 12 months 12,000 miles. Even the crappiest engine built with used parts will usually last 12,000 miles against defects. I would think that a good attorney could give a built proof form stating what isn't covered. A clutch is considered a wearable item. No idea why anyone would warranty that as part of a long block. If the engine has a hole in the piston it is pretty obvious the timing was off. If the pistons are scuffed it is pretty obvious the engine was overheated. If all the bearings are scuffed it is obvious that the oil was allowed to go low. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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VWsArent4Hippies Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 3079 Location: The Bull City
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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Only putting <600 miles on an engine in ~10 months, and yelling from the rooftops how amazing, and reliable it is, while at the same time recommending everyone else get one, is fucking comical _________________
aeromech wrote: |
in my opinion you don't know shit |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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SGKent wrote: |
3 years, 36 months is common against DEFECTS from top tier builders. Evem 24 months, 2 years is better than 12 months 12,000 miles. Even the crappiest engine built with used parts will usually last 12,000 miles against defects. I would think that a good attorney could give a built proof form stating what isn't covered. A clutch is considered a wearable item. No idea why anyone would warranty that as part of a long block. If the engine has a hole in the piston it is pretty obvious the timing was off. If the pistons are scuffed it is pretty obvious the engine was overheated. If all the bearings are scuffed it is obvious that the oil was allowed to go low. |
What was Jake's written warranty on a $20,000 motor? Zero miles and zero months if I remember correctly. |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7623
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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For a newly built engine with today’s parts available I’d go with Roy. He’s built a ton of engines. Not just for cars but airplanes and I believe fire depts water pumpers (Something like that) as well. Dude has navigated through all the crappy parts and put together a recipe for success. That’s not to say other builders are not building successful engines. Just maybe not at the same prices as Roy. I’m sure Roy has had an engine failure prematurely from time to time. But you can’t find a lot of negative criticism on his products. Please don’t pull up any negativity on Roy. I’ve seen it and already accept he’s had some failures.
Here is my feedback on Roy.
Xevin wrote: |
I bought a set of heads from Roy. This is not feedback on his product as my build is not finished yet. Rather a comment on his customer service with me.
Long before I bought anything from Roy he would respond to any of my questions even if it did not mean any kind of sale from his business. Roy has always been gracious with tech tips to help me out. You can tell he has passion for the ACVW hobby and is very proud of his company. I appreciate it and his engagement on the Samba. I realize Roy is in the business to sell products so participating on the Samba can help propmote his gear. He also takes a risk of hurting his business. I don’t care. He’s actually saved me money with some of his advice. I give credit to John at aircooled.net for doing the same thing. Both these guys are good. Yes I’m sure their companies have made mistakes and dropped the ball a time or two. Who hasn’t. My team has but I do my best to make it right for the customer. Although over the years im sure I’ve pissed off a few as well. As for his product, I’ll be back to review it as well. I can say my builder buddy is impressed with these new heads so far. He has experience with MOFOCO heads a decade ago and thought they were just OK then. Not because performance but from a building point of view. Said they took some fiddling when assembling. But he might start using these new Mofoco heads in future builds. So far he is pleased. Thank you Roy for all the advice over the years.
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(Yes I realize there is no internal cylinder deflector tins. Roy has told me they are not required on his heads) _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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SGKent wrote: |
3 years, 36 months is common against DEFECTS from top tier builders. Evem 24 months, 2 years is better than 12 months 12,000 miles. Even the crappiest engine built with used parts will usually last 12,000 miles against defects. I would think that a good attorney could give a built proof form stating what isn't covered. A clutch is considered a wearable item. No idea why anyone would warranty that as part of a long block. If the engine has a hole in the piston it is pretty obvious the timing was off. If the pistons are scuffed it is pretty obvious the engine was overheated. If all the bearings are scuffed it is obvious that the oil was allowed to go low. |
I have this warranty on every engine I build from a 1200cc to a 2332cc. Most top tier builders have a front door warranty on engines, especially performance engines.(that means no warranty at all)
Who are all these top tier builders with 3 year warranties? _________________ Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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to start. "Every Honda Genuine Remanufactured Part is backed nationwide for 3 years or 36,000 miles."
You made a statement that if he bought an engine from you it would last 75,000+ miles. Then you offered him 12,000 miles 1 year on a piece of paper. Either offer something tangible in writing or don't say your engines last 75,000 + miles. I was in business long enough to know that statements like you made get you into trouble. Say instead, I have sold some of these engines that have lasted 75,000 miles. Don't get into a pissing match over this. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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SGKent wrote: |
to start. "Every Honda Genuine Remanufactured Part is backed nationwide for 3 years or 36,000 miles."
You made a statement that if he bought an engine from you it would last 75,000+ miles. Then you offered him 12,000 miles 1 year on a piece of paper. Either offer something tangible in writing or don't say your engines last 75,000 + miles. I was in business long enough to know that statements like you made get you into trouble. Say instead, I have sold some of these engines that have lasted 75,000 miles. Don't get into a pissing match over this. |
Wow....just trying to answer some questions on here, if you want to pick apart my statements, you go right ahead.
Also, at least quote other VOLKSWAGEN AIRCOOLED ENGINE MANUFACTURERS warranties. A honda parts warranty has nothing to do with our discussion.
Oh, and my warranty is one year, unlimited miles BTW.
Have a great one Kent!!! _________________ Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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[email protected] wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
to start. "Every Honda Genuine Remanufactured Part is backed nationwide for 3 years or 36,000 miles."
You made a statement that if he bought an engine from you it would last 75,000+ miles. Then you offered him 12,000 miles 1 year on a piece of paper. Either offer something tangible in writing or don't say your engines last 75,000 + miles. I was in business long enough to know that statements like you made get you into trouble. Say instead, I have sold some of these engines that have lasted 75,000 miles. Don't get into a pissing match over this. |
Wow....just trying to answer some questions on here, if you want to pick apart my statements, you go right ahead.
Also, at least quote other VOLKSWAGEN AIRCOOLED ENGINE MANUFACTURERS warranties. A honda parts warranty has nothing to do with our discussion.
Oh, and my warranty is one year, unlimited miles BTW.
Have a great one Kent!!! |
Then just say, we offer a 12 month unlimited mileage warranty on the long block, and drop it at that or give the potential buyers a page with some testimonials on it by bus owners who have owned your engines for 75,000 miles. That said, in this day and age were it me I would pencil out a longer term prorated warranty. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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honestcharlie56 Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2017 Posts: 87 Location: Houston, Tx
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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Something personal must be going on in here. Here's one more vote for buy an assembled long block thats been run on stand, considering your requirements OP. Good luck and please post some pictures when you get the ball rolling. _________________ 1982 Vanagon Westy
1974 Transporter
1971 Tin Top Westy |
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jacobcallaghan Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2018 Posts: 183 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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Here is an update!
Towed the bus to bend Oregon today. Dropped the van off to Gary at Young’s old volks home. He has been I business building air cooled for 45 years. His shop was Awsome. And he was equally as Awsome as a human. Excited to get building.
He is splitting the case tomorrow to see what has gone bad. He is going to have me drop by and take a look for myself. Hope the case is still good
We are going to go for a berry stock 1600 build with a single carb and oil bath intake. Should be going as close to stock as possible.
My van does not have the mount for the oil bath and I will need to weld the metal plate back on. Does any one know any welders in bend?
I will keep you guys updated on how it’s going. |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7623
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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That’s great Jacob. I bet Gary will set you up proper. It will be nice to have a stock like setup. Should be a bit easier for you to tune and maintain. The Green manual will be easier to follow when you need to reference it. Be sure to note any deviation from the Bentley Gary might do. Not because he is wrong to use his recipe. Just so you know whats different when using the manual. Now that you going stock you might want to figure out the best carburetor and distributor set up. OEM German will be best. I gave you links to a resource earlier. Do Gary a favor. Don’t post up his build formula. People might chime in and Unfairly criticize it. In turn you will be second guessing the whole build process. Good luck. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Manfred58sc Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009 Posts: 3382
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine :( |
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Smart move! That is the right way to do it. That way you KNOW exactly what is being done and have say in the process. That will be the true warranty, not some on paper claim. _________________ Fat chick owner/operator |
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