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NJ John Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2007 Posts: 2224 Location: HdG, MD & NJ
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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Years ago I told my buddy to get a FK65 for his turbo project. Then I started over thinking it and had him go with a FK7. Then he never went turbo. But, it pulls hard with dual 40's. Not helpful info at all. But he still has the FK65 NIB. I should get it off him. Since I was going to use a W120 for the street.
How would a VZ15 be for a turbo? _________________ 1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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250 degrees of duration at .050", on a 108 Lobe Center.
The VZ Series of cams have a short valvetrain life due to super-fast ramps and high valve lift. 1.1 rockers only. _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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I was always a fan of small cams, I've seen so many car's over cam'd ,, but
I had great advice to run a FK10 in my fresh 2276 I just had to try it ,,
It works great , I think because of the stroke ,, it doesn't bog , hick-up or anything ,, just putts around like a n/a 'stroker' , cruising ,, I point out to the guys I give rides too and show'em the boost gauge " see it's in vacuum mode still: no boosting even at lite throttle it will put u "back-in-the-seat Hope this make since? _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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I do not have the experience of working with cams that you fellows do but here is my common sense way of thinking about it.
Hotter cams are a way to get more fuel air mixture volume in and out of an engine. Usually at a higher rpm. A bit like a high strung woman - not?
Turbos do the same job but at a more resomable rpm for the most part if they are matched correctly to the engine size. The stronger, steadier paced lady.
Now, throw these two ladies in the same kitchen and tell them to make you supper... Ya! It's going to take some serious effort to get harmony there! Personally I am content with just one wife or the other.
Hot cams and turbos look to me to be a bit of a tricky balancing act because they are both fighting for dominance over your power band.
Is that a fair comparison? |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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Not really Mine likes the lower rpm's too,,not really noticeable? _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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oprn wrote: |
I do not have the experience of working with cams that you fellows do but here is my common sense way of thinking about it.
Hotter cams are a way to get more fuel air mixture volume in and out of an engine. Usually at a higher rpm. A bit like a high strung woman - not?
Turbos do the same job but at a more resomable rpm for the most part if they are matched correctly to the engine size. The stronger, steadier paced lady.
Now, throw these two ladies in the same kitchen and tell them to make you supper... Ya! It's going to take some serious effort to get harmony there! Personally I am content with just one wife or the other.
Hot cams and turbos look to me to be a bit of a tricky balancing act because they are both fighting for dominance over your power band.
Is that a fair comparison? |
I think that is typical. _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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Bugsy61 Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2011 Posts: 256 Location: Peoria, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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Small cam, low RPM power, big cam, high RPM power. No different than naturally aspirated. And the median area between the two, which is probably the most practical for most people. Extremes are for out of the ordinary situations. I use a small cam because I blow through Kadrons. They don't idle very well without a small cam. So I guess you would call Kadrons a conditional extreme. |
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NJ John Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2007 Posts: 2224 Location: HdG, MD & NJ
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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Splitdog wrote: |
250 degrees of duration at .050", on a 108 Lobe Center.
The VZ Series of cams have a short valvetrain life due to super-fast ramps and high valve lift. 1.1 rockers only. |
I've used the VZ15 in a 1641 na and I'd performed well. I understand about all the VZ series having fast ramps. Good cylinder volume for small engines. Not sure how the would be with a turbo. _________________ 1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage |
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busey Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016 Posts: 420 Location: Sun City Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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Question, regardless of which or who's FI turbo kit i ultimately decide on , are there misc parts i can start accumulating that i will need regardless of which or who's kit? I'm thinking Fuel Pump is probably one?? _________________ No turning back now, "Its Blow thru or No thru" baby! |
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Krochus Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2017 Posts: 892 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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busey wrote: |
Question, regardless of which or who's FI turbo kit i ultimately decide on , are there misc parts i can start accumulating that i will need regardless of which or who's kit? I'm thinking Fuel Pump is probably one?? |
You could start plumbing for higher pressure fuel. You’ll want a wideband. And some sort of digitally controlled ignition that is MAP based. But since who’s kit includes what varies wildly you run the risk of double buying on stuff directly on the engine.
Plan on a much better clutch too, a mid mount and good brakes if you still have drums _________________ 1970 Turbo Baja Bug Turbaja 2165 t3/t4 Speeduino sequential EFI LS3 coil on plug ignition
1965 Chevy c30, Microsquirt turbo aluminum 5.3/nv4500 |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9772 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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The PO of my car. Pre-plumbed it for FI.
I don't think the fuel supply and return lines are large enough for the job thow.
The pics are just an idea of where you can run your supply and return tubing.
The fuel lines are gonna need a good cleaning before I can even think of using them. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Krochus Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2017 Posts: 892 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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I don’t even have a return line on my car.
Or actually I should say that my return line is only about 2 feet long. From the filter regulator back to the tank.
If a 1/4 Line will keep a carbed turbo big fed in theory it should keep a turbo one fed. But I ran 3/8 jic lol _________________ 1970 Turbo Baja Bug Turbaja 2165 t3/t4 Speeduino sequential EFI LS3 coil on plug ignition
1965 Chevy c30, Microsquirt turbo aluminum 5.3/nv4500 |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
The PO of my car. Pre-plumbed it for FI.
I don't think the fuel supply and return lines are large enough for the job thow.
The pics are just an idea of where you can run your supply and return tubing.
The fuel lines are gonna need a good cleaning before I can even think of using them. |
I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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X2 on the brake upgrade! |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9772 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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clonebug wrote: |
I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose. |
The fuel lines are metal from front to back.
The hose that you see in the pics. Is protecting the metal tubes inside the hose. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
clonebug wrote: |
I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose. |
The fuel lines are metal from front to back.
The hose that you see in the pics. Is protecting the metal tubes inside the hose. |
What size steel line is in there ?????
The Volvo turbo I grabbed my pump from used 1/4 inch pressure feed from the pump outlet to the fuel rail and it was rated for 230 hp.
Unless you plan on 600 hp a 1/4 or 5/16ths line is plenty for a turbo setup. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9772 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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Honestly. They appear to be brake line diameter. I haven't measured the fuel lines. Because I really haven't thought of FI. Yet!
But you never know!
clonebug wrote: |
67rustavenger wrote: |
clonebug wrote: |
I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose. |
The fuel lines are metal from front to back.
The hose that you see in the pics. Is protecting the metal tubes inside the hose. |
What size steel line is in there ?????
The Volvo turbo I grabbed my pump from used 1/4 inch pressure feed from the pump outlet to the fuel rail and it was rated for 230 hp.
Unless you plan on 600 hp a 1/4 or 5/16ths line is plenty for a turbo setup. |
_________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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If you're running new lines just put in 3/8" line and use #6 fittings. Those will handle all you can throw at it. No sence doing the job twice if you go bigger or badder in the future just so you could save $10 now.
brad |
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busey Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016 Posts: 420 Location: Sun City Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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clonebug wrote: |
67rustavenger wrote: |
clonebug wrote: |
I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose. |
The fuel lines are metal from front to back.
The hose that you see in the pics. Is protecting the metal tubes inside the hose. |
What size steel line is in there ?????
The Volvo turbo I grabbed my pump from used 1/4 inch pressure feed from the pump outlet to the fuel rail and it was rated for 230 hp.
Unless you plan on 600 hp a 1/4 or 5/16ths line is plenty for a turbo setup. |
Cool, i do have a 12ft roll of 5/16"o.d. 'steel tubing' i bought from my local NAPA (P#6414002). _________________ No turning back now, "Its Blow thru or No thru" baby! |
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Dauz Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010 Posts: 1790
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo |
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slalombuggy wrote: |
If you're running new lines just put in 3/8" line and use #6 fittings. Those will handle all you can throw at it. No sence doing the job twice if you go bigger or badder in the future just so you could save $10 now.
brad |
yes, 3/8 stainless. Through the tunnel. |
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