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Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo
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NJ John
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

Years ago I told my buddy to get a FK65 for his turbo project. Then I started over thinking it and had him go with a FK7. Then he never went turbo. But, it pulls hard with dual 40's. Not helpful info at all. But he still has the FK65 NIB. I should get it off him. Since I was going to use a W120 for the street.
How would a VZ15 be for a turbo?
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Splitdog
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

250 degrees of duration at .050", on a 108 Lobe Center.
The VZ Series of cams have a short valvetrain life due to super-fast ramps and high valve lift. 1.1 rockers only.
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madmike
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

I was always a fan of small cams, I've seen so many car's over cam'd ,, but
I had great advice to run a FK10 in my fresh 2276 I just had to try it ,,
It works great , I think because of the stroke ,, it doesn't bog , hick-up or anything ,, just putts around like a n/a 'stroker' , cruising ,, I point out to the guys I give rides too and show'em the boost gauge " see it's in vacuum mode still: no boosting even at lite throttle it will put u "back-in-the-seat Laughing Hope this make since?
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

I do not have the experience of working with cams that you fellows do but here is my common sense way of thinking about it.

Hotter cams are a way to get more fuel air mixture volume in and out of an engine. Usually at a higher rpm. A bit like a high strung woman - not?

Turbos do the same job but at a more resomable rpm for the most part if they are matched correctly to the engine size. The stronger, steadier paced lady.

Now, throw these two ladies in the same kitchen and tell them to make you supper... Rolling Eyes Ya! It's going to take some serious effort to get harmony there! Personally I am content with just one wife or the other. Wink

Hot cams and turbos look to me to be a bit of a tricky balancing act because they are both fighting for dominance over your power band.

Is that a fair comparison?
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madmike
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

Not really Rolling Eyes Laughing Mine likes the lower rpm's too,,not really noticeable?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
I do not have the experience of working with cams that you fellows do but here is my common sense way of thinking about it.

Hotter cams are a way to get more fuel air mixture volume in and out of an engine. Usually at a higher rpm. A bit like a high strung woman - not?

Turbos do the same job but at a more resomable rpm for the most part if they are matched correctly to the engine size. The stronger, steadier paced lady.

Now, throw these two ladies in the same kitchen and tell them to make you supper... Rolling Eyes Ya! It's going to take some serious effort to get harmony there! Personally I am content with just one wife or the other. Wink

Hot cams and turbos look to me to be a bit of a tricky balancing act because they are both fighting for dominance over your power band.

Is that a fair comparison?



I think that is typical.
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Bugsy61
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

Small cam, low RPM power, big cam, high RPM power. No different than naturally aspirated. And the median area between the two, which is probably the most practical for most people. Extremes are for out of the ordinary situations. I use a small cam because I blow through Kadrons. They don't idle very well without a small cam. So I guess you would call Kadrons a conditional extreme.
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NJ John
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

Splitdog wrote:
250 degrees of duration at .050", on a 108 Lobe Center.
The VZ Series of cams have a short valvetrain life due to super-fast ramps and high valve lift. 1.1 rockers only.


I've used the VZ15 in a 1641 na and I'd performed well. I understand about all the VZ series having fast ramps. Good cylinder volume for small engines. Not sure how the would be with a turbo.
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1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

Question, regardless of which or who's FI turbo kit i ultimately decide on , are there misc parts i can start accumulating that i will need regardless of which or who's kit? I'm thinking Fuel Pump is probably one??
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

busey wrote:
Question, regardless of which or who's FI turbo kit i ultimately decide on , are there misc parts i can start accumulating that i will need regardless of which or who's kit? I'm thinking Fuel Pump is probably one??


You could start plumbing for higher pressure fuel. You’ll want a wideband. And some sort of digitally controlled ignition that is MAP based. But since who’s kit includes what varies wildly you run the risk of double buying on stuff directly on the engine.

Plan on a much better clutch too, a mid mount and good brakes if you still have drums
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

The PO of my car. Pre-plumbed it for FI. Very Happy
I don't think the fuel supply and return lines are large enough for the job thow. Sad
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The pics are just an idea of where you can run your supply and return tubing.

The fuel lines are gonna need a good cleaning before I can even think of using them.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

I don’t even have a return line on my car.

Or actually I should say that my return line is only about 2 feet long. From the filter regulator back to the tank.

If a 1/4 Line will keep a carbed turbo big fed in theory it should keep a turbo one fed. But I ran 3/8 jic lol
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
The PO of my car. Pre-plumbed it for FI. Very Happy
I don't think the fuel supply and return lines are large enough for the job thow. Sad
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The pics are just an idea of where you can run your supply and return tubing.

The fuel lines are gonna need a good cleaning before I can even think of using them.


I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose.
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http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

X2 on the brake upgrade!
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

clonebug wrote:


I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose.

The fuel lines are metal from front to back.
The hose that you see in the pics. Is protecting the metal tubes inside the hose.
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Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
clonebug wrote:


I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose.

The fuel lines are metal from front to back.
The hose that you see in the pics. Is protecting the metal tubes inside the hose.


What size steel line is in there ?????

The Volvo turbo I grabbed my pump from used 1/4 inch pressure feed from the pump outlet to the fuel rail and it was rated for 230 hp.
Unless you plan on 600 hp a 1/4 or 5/16ths line is plenty for a turbo setup.
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vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash


http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

Honestly. They appear to be brake line diameter. I haven't measured the fuel lines. Because I really haven't thought of FI. Yet!
But you never know!
clonebug wrote:
67rustavenger wrote:
clonebug wrote:


I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose.

The fuel lines are metal from front to back.
The hose that you see in the pics. Is protecting the metal tubes inside the hose.


What size steel line is in there ?????

The Volvo turbo I grabbed my pump from used 1/4 inch pressure feed from the pump outlet to the fuel rail and it was rated for 230 hp.
Unless you plan on 600 hp a 1/4 or 5/16ths line is plenty for a turbo setup.

_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

If you're running new lines just put in 3/8" line and use #6 fittings. Those will handle all you can throw at it. No sence doing the job twice if you go bigger or badder in the future just so you could save $10 now.

brad
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busey
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

clonebug wrote:
67rustavenger wrote:
clonebug wrote:


I wouldn't trust those lines for FI. If you ever switch you might want to replace them with new for one thing and secondly...check to make sure that it is actually FI rated hose.

The fuel lines are metal from front to back.
The hose that you see in the pics. Is protecting the metal tubes inside the hose.


What size steel line is in there ?????

The Volvo turbo I grabbed my pump from used 1/4 inch pressure feed from the pump outlet to the fuel rail and it was rated for 230 hp.
Unless you plan on 600 hp a 1/4 or 5/16ths line is plenty for a turbo setup.


Cool, i do have a 12ft roll of 5/16"o.d. 'steel tubing' i bought from my local NAPA (P#6414002).
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Blowthru vs/or Drawthru Turbo Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
If you're running new lines just put in 3/8" line and use #6 fittings. Those will handle all you can throw at it. No sence doing the job twice if you go bigger or badder in the future just so you could save $10 now.

brad


yes, 3/8 stainless. Through the tunnel.
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