Author |
Message |
joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
|
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
My Part time job has increased it's work load. I have started a project in California and now starting to fly back and forth. I live in West Virginia, do not like flying or airports. Just a hillbilly from the mountains and kind of like to stay put. So, my progress is slower than what I would like, but still making progress.
First bare Chassis is complete, and time to move onto other bits that need done.
Ball Joints. How does a ball joint work? A Ball Joint is a threaded stud with a ball on the other end of it, and the ball is captured in a socket that allows it to twist and move in a arch around the ball. A tie rod is a ball joint also. Since the VW front trailing arm only moves in one directional plane, up/down, VW strengthened the socket by adding a section on each side of the ball, creating a slot. This way the joint can move along that slot, and be held in place stronger by the extra sides of the slot.
That is a very basic description of the Ball joint without going into a long drawn out theory of it. But the take away point being that directional slot. That slot has to be lined up with the trailing arm's movement, or it will bind and lessen the travel distance of the suspension, and cause premature failure of the joint. So VW cut directional notches into the ball joint that aid in installing them in the correct way. The slot and the notches can be seen in this photo.
On each chassis build I install new ball joints. Why not? It is good to have control over your steering and suspension, right? The first thing I do is clean up the arms by blasting them, then press out the old joints. I then make a clean area to work on the joints, and remove the dust boots. If the ball joint is pressed in with the boot on, it can tear the boot very easily.
Since the slot has to be aligned with the movement of the trailing arm, I use a square and a sharpie and make some marks on the arms.
The marks help me line up the notches in the new ball joints while pressing in.
I bought a cheap 20 ton Harbor Freight press for using in ball joint replacement and transaxle work. A 10 ton unit is too small for removing old ball joints. At a tool auction many years ago back when Lassie was a pup, I scored a 3/4 drive socket set for $ 5.00. They work perfect for press jigs. Setting them up and pressing the new joints into the arms while aligning the notches with my marks.
One done, and three more to go.
And all 4 done for this first chassis. Since I have replaced maybe a 200 ball joints in VW's over the years, I am efficient with the process. It takes me about 10 minutes to press them all in.
Then before installing the boots, I tape them off, paint with chassis black, and then a color of choice, or leave black.
Word of caution. Pressing the new joints in is not very hard and goes smoothly. But pressing the old ones out can sometimes be trying because they have usually rusted in place. Caution needs to be taken to keep the press in line, the arm properly supported while applying pressure. Sometimes it takes a lot of pressure to make them move, and when they release the pressure, everything jumps and parts can come your way as they scatter and fall. On difficult units, I sometimes wrap the joint in a towel to act like a flack jacket to slow the parts down when they pop. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
|
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
Amongst other things, I think I have ADD. So while paint is drying on the front suspension, I started the second chassis work to get it mocked up, and check how much to shorten it.
Installed 3 X 3 rear trailing arms.
Since this chassis will get a 091 6 rib transaxle, the transaxle frame horns need clearance to fit the larger gear box between them. What I do is cut short sections of the pinch weld seam off. Not to much or the metal will change its shape and get out of proper shape and location VW put them in.
After welding in a replacement flat section top and bottom, cut another section out and weld in a matching section of the flat stock and so forth until done.
Oh! Gotta switch over and paint some hardware for the first chassis suspension.
Then install the 091 6 rib transaxle.
I am using ERCO' Bus to Bug conversion housing that allows the use of a beetle nose cone and shift rods. This places the hockey stick into the tunnel without tilting the transaxle and causing the engine to raise up in the rear into the body.
I like using soft mounts on buggies that will get driven a lot. When on the road for 10 to 12 hours a day for days on end, the vibrations and noise wear on a person. The soft mounts make it a lot nicer to drive long distance. The front mount is a stock '73 + type one with the captured rubber mount. The rear is a modified 10 degree mount.
Then slip the EcoTec engine in the chassis. Very simple and straight forward. Combined with Type 181 Thing spindles, the chassis attains some good height. And the EcoTec has some super nice oil pan clearance.
_________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
|
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
ADD kicking in again.
Back to the first Chassis. Installed the swing axle. 4.12 R&P rebuilt with long axles. The engine is a street bullet with dual carbs and a good set of heads and matching cam/crank.
Over the years I have collected several '73 Type 181 Thing Fan shrouds. I like them because of their tested and documented better cooling capacity. This engine has one.
Front suspension complete. Also, in both of my Things, I have had Duck Boards. I thought it would be a cool addition to a buggy.
Note the Mountain Dew Can height for later reference.
And Chassis one is now a roller.
And setting the body on for further fabrication and fitting work.
_________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
|
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
I am going to step away from these builds for a moment, I have to Vent and Rant about something that PO's me in a bad way. I picked up a chassis with something on it that just struck a cord and went right through me.
A car enthusiast who does not know enough about cars or fabrication to build something decent and safe.
Right here is a prime example of work being done that has no place in our hobby, or any car hobby. Work like this is dangerous at best. These parts are a minor thing on a buggy, but if this poor quality of work is carried throughout a full build, it is a down right danger to anyone on the road. Crap like this gives buggies a bad name when it breaks, and can lead to problems like is going on in Texas.
Three light hits with a hammer.
This is a Meyers Manx Bumper mount.
One light hit with a hammer and off it came in my hand.
Who ever did this work needs the mig torch slapped out of their hands, and banned from working on cars.
I am not pounding on their welding ability. I am pounding at the fact they do not know enough about working on a car to know when they cannot use a tool properly and jeopardizes not only the safety of the driver of this buggy, but potentially anyone else driving on the road.
It is not the welding machines fault. The brackets were not even properly set on the beam along with the super poor quality welds.
I understand not knowing how to weld is just a issue with the learning process. The person just has not been taught how to weld properly. That is not my issue. My issue is the person does not have enough mental acumen to realize they are not yet experienced enough to know that they should not be doing this and take it to someone who can.
Please, if you are building a buggy, study and read enough to know when you cannot yet do a task with your skill level. Have the knowledge to keep going and building your buggy, but get a person who does know how to do the task for you.
Building a buggy is a Blast! There are too many people who would enjoy helping you, or helping educate you to build it safe not to reach out to them.
Sorry for the asshole style rant, but we have to be safe in what we do. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gary0302 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007 Posts: 596 Location: Coastal NC
|
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
_________________ Gary David Holbrook
Facebook and YouTube
Coastal North Carolina
Check out my videos on Youtube
"It's a buggy not a space shuttle...." - Dale M.
"When in doubt, blame it on the previous owner" - Gary0302 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5445 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
joescoolcustoms wrote: |
I am going to step away from these builds for a moment, I have to Vent and Rant about something that PO's me in a bad way. I picked up a chassis with something on it that just struck a cord and went right through me.
A car enthusiast who does not know enough about cars or fabrication to build something decent and safe.
Right here is a prime example of work being done that has no place in our hobby, or any car hobby. Work like this is dangerous at best. These parts are a minor thing on a buggy, but if this poor quality of work is carried throughout a full build, it is a down right danger to anyone on the road. Crap like this gives buggies a bad name when it breaks, and can lead to problems like is going on in Texas.
Three light hits with a hammer.
This is a Meyers Manx Bumper mount.
|
Are those the tabs for a Manx style front "bumper" mount shown on the black and white body?
Who cares how that attach the brackets, use JB Weld if you want! That isn't a bumper in any functional sense of the word. Better idea yet, leave it off and quit kidding yourself that you have a bumper.
If that was someone tow bar mount I would be horrified. If it is just the tabs for some joke of a bumper, well... a joke of a weld seems right in line for a joke of a bumper. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:27 am Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
I am curious as to why you want swing axle on the street buggy? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4026 Location: NW Washington
|
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
oprn wrote: |
I am curious as to why you want swing axle on the street buggy? |
Swing axle is simpler and stronger...... _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MrGoodtunes Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012 Posts: 849 Location: South Florida
|
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
clonebug wrote: |
oprn wrote: |
I am curious as to why you want swing axle on the street buggy? |
Swing axle is simpler and stronger...... |
Plus, no diagonal trailing arms means room is available for...
Battery box
Primary fuse box
External oil cooling radiator
Oil filter
Fuel pump
Fuel shut-off valve
Duct for cool air inlet
etc. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
|
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
EVfun wrote: |
Who cares how that attach the brackets, use JB Weld if you want! That isn't a bumper in any functional sense of the word. Better idea yet, leave it off and quit kidding yourself that you have a bumper.
If that was someone tow bar mount I would be horrified. If it is just the tabs for some joke of a bumper, well... a joke of a weld seems right in line for a joke of a bumper. |
When I found this particular niche in the auto hobby 15 + years ago, I would have debated about the bumper. And most likely the single hoop roll bar. Most likely exhausts, cooling tins, paint, seats and other items. But time has tempered me to realize that just about everything we do on our buggies reflect the person that owns them. Maybe that is what draws us to them so we can really be individuals with these little cars.
I have gotten, or maybe grown to the point where if I do not like something on a buggy, like engine choice, interior, or what ever, I appreciate the individual choices that were made instead of pointing out why I do not like a style.
So if a owner likes a Subaru engine, a air cooled engine, a ecotec engine, or a electric motor to power their buggy with, I am cool with that too because it is the diverse hobby we built and seem to like.
And if you want 22 inch rims, (not my personal style), I am cool with that too, and will enjoy your buggy with you. But if you use only 1 lug nut to hold them on, I will call you out on your lack of safety on potential to hurt yourself and others. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
|
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
MrGoodtunes came the closest to why I went swing axle on this street buggy. Room for the body. The Swinger allows for room to fit the early edition of this tagged Manx body. This particular build I wanted lower than normal, (not slammed) and to get that, it required no body lift. If it was a IRS rear, this body would need a 2 7/8 inch lift to properly clear the suspension. I have already built a early Manx with a 3 inch lift for the street. And since I try to build different every time, this is the result, this time. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
|
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
Another shot of ADD, and onto the Ecotec chassis.
I mocked up the suspension, engine and transaxle so I could set the body on it and get a feel of how the body needs installed for this build.
This is my second ecotec build, and I already know that to not cut the rear of an original Manx body, it does need a 3 inch body lift. So that is my starting point for height. That first ecotec I built, the fellow I was building it for wanted the chassis 3 inches longer than normal, (shortened 11 1/2 inches instead of 14 1/2 inches). This chassis I wanted to keep the rear up under the body the most I can because it will have the 3 inch longer rear arms already, and any additional length makes it look more out of proportion.
Set the body on the chassis with 3 inch shims under the rear and front, move the body to the rear location spot, and mark the tunnel.
Then move the body forward to where it set nicely, and mark the tunnel again. Found it could be shortened 13 3/8 inch. Just for a safety fitting factor, I will shorten this chassis 13 inches.
Two builds back-to-back, and so drastically different.
Onto the chassis table for this second pan. Just like the first chassis, rust repair on the front beam head, then the shortening. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5445 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
joescoolcustoms wrote: |
EVfun wrote: |
Who cares how that attach the brackets, use JB Weld if you want! That isn't a bumper in any functional sense of the word. Better idea yet, leave it off and quit kidding yourself that you have a bumper.
If that was someone tow bar mount I would be horrified. If it is just the tabs for some joke of a bumper, well... a joke of a weld seems right in line for a joke of a bumper. |
When I found this particular niche in the auto hobby 15 + years ago, I would have debated about the bumper. And most likely the single hoop roll bar. Most likely exhausts, cooling tins, paint, seats and other items. But time has tempered me to realize that just about everything we do on our buggies reflect the person that owns them. Maybe that is what draws us to them so we can really be individuals with these little cars.
I have gotten, or maybe grown to the point where if I do not like something on a buggy, like engine choice, interior, or what ever, I appreciate the individual choices that were made instead of pointing out why I do not like a style. |
Sorry, I came across harshly there. I agree to build it your way and make it look the way you want. If you like the looks of some decorative bumpers, go for it. If you want functional bumpers, go for that. It just seemed like the appropriate place for someone to practice with their new 120 volt flux core wire feed welder. The one side had enough metal contact that I doubt the bumper would have ever fallen off. The other side was sad, but still attached. It wasn't really functional and perhaps they had the good sense to not get it too hot because of the bearing inside. It appears that prep was lacking and they didn't really understand penetration.
I have considered a long shifter extension to add a little "Rat Fink" touch to the Berry Mini-T. Truly nonfunctional, but perhaps humorous with the exaggerated body styling of the Mini-T. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
MrGoodtunes wrote: |
clonebug wrote: |
oprn wrote: |
I am curious as to why you want swing axle on the street buggy? |
Swing axle is simpler and stronger...... |
Plus, no diagonal trailing arms means room is available for...
Battery box
Primary fuse box
External oil cooling radiator
Oil filter
Fuel pump
Fuel shut-off valve
Duct for cool air inlet
etc. |
Ok, I get it. My Buggy is street only, fairly low now with the swing axle already well into the negative camber angle territory so I am about to pull the swing axle out and go with IRS. I want to go taller on the rubber and still maintain the present ride height which would exaggerate that broken axle look that I hate so bad on the slammed swing axle cars. I am also concerned about wheel bearing lubrication on an axle that runs down hill to the tranny and the extra tire wear from the negative camber.
Carry on. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hillmotorsports Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2014 Posts: 432 Location: Morrisburg, Ontario, Canada
|
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
OPM... I resemble that remark.
My 1st car... almost 50 yrs ago... was a swing axle Manx. I was never happy with the look of the rear suspension, as you said it looked broken , no matter what height I had the torsion bars set to.
Our Tow'd project WAS going to go IRS but now am questioning myself about the pro/con benefits. Ours is primarily intended to be a dinghy behind our motorhome but will naturally find some light offroad uses as well.
I do realize that everyone makes their own choices AND mistakes, that there are no perfect answers. But still....
Paul _________________ Rosemarie and Paul Hill
Morrisburg, Ontario
(With way more projects than spare time!) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
|
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
oprn, I can offer help on your issue of camber with a lowered IRS.
I may be a long time and champion offroad race car driver and builder, but I grew up around sports car road racing and have built winning road race cars professionally as well as Baja 100 class winning offroad racers. So I DO know a thing or 2 about going low too.
The most common fix is to swap the IRS arms left to right. The IRS arms are NOT made equal left and right then get a shock mount and snubber mount added. The camber is mirror imaged. Swapping left to right flips the arms upside down. That allows more straight up camber when lowered. Stock the axle half shafts angle down from the side of the trans to the stub axle in the arm. In a lowered buggy or Bug, the half shafts will be lower at the trans than at the arm. Thus the camber needs to change to deal with that, which the swap does. It's not a huge difference, but does help some. That swap requires cutting off the shock mount and snubber mount from the arm. If done carefully, you can then weld them on the inverted arms so the shock mount and snubber remain on the side of the car where they started. For really low, you could weld the shock mount so that the shock mounts to the arm farther away from the arm so the shock doesn't bottom out so quick.
To get it really low and still have near zero camber, you would need to custom fab arms from scratch or at least cut the hub end off the arms and re-weld them at the new camber angle (and of course reinforce those cut and welded arms like offroad arms). _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
Dustymojave you l believe have misunderstood my post. I do not have an IRS in the Buggy now. That is why there is a camber problem. I am switching to IRS to fix that problem.
Yes I have heard about swapping the trailing arms but until I get them jigged up I don't know if I will need to do that yet.
Let's not clutter this thread up with my issues, I have a tendency to do that. Sorry! I will start one of my own in a couple weeks about the IRS swap. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
62kellison Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2018 Posts: 513 Location: mass
|
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
love the height/ground clearance Joe!!…….Sean |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Powaypete Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2019 Posts: 71 Location: San Diego (Poway), CA
|
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
Joe, I have a Zetec in my Manx and will need to change the clutch soon. The forward engine lift point is under the body. What are you thinking about when it comes to changing the clutch? Body removal or pre-cutting the body for engine install/removal?
Following very closely to your build. I have years of experience on mid-engine Air cooled sand rails. This is my first rear engine with IRS and a body. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
|
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Winter Builds for 2019: It's All About Me Now. |
|
|
Powaypete wrote: |
Joe, I have a Zetec in my Manx and will need to change the clutch soon. The forward engine lift point is under the body. What are you thinking about when it comes to changing the clutch? Body removal or pre-cutting the body for engine install/removal?
Following very closely to your build. I have years of experience on mid-engine Air cooled sand rails. This is my first rear engine with IRS and a body. |
The first Ecotec I built encountered this problem. I am going to build a skid pan that bolts to the engine mounts, and is also part of a removal platform. Will make an adapter to go into a floor jack and lift it out like a VW engine. Complicated part will be finding that balance point to center on the jack. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|