Engine failed this morning, what broke?

[windfish]

Hey guys, driving my '70 bug this morning and on the interstate off-ramp it made an unfortunate noise.
Now the engine can't turn over all the way, I can rock the pulley back and forth a bit but it gets stuck at a certain point. The starter can't turn it either, stops with a dull thud.

Pulled my dashcam footage and it captured it fairly well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXEL5LNiEMg
The engine rev'd on it's own as I was coasting up to the stop light, I pushed the clutch in then it clattered and died.
Noise starts at 30 seconds, left a few seconds of normal driving in for comparison; the faint rattle is my front shift rod bushing, 's been on my to-do list.

Engine is a '72 1600cc (afaik), got it off craigslist when my main engine had a head issue last year.
Put ~3k miles on this engine, its def. on the worn side but kept decent oil pressure. Clutch plate and disc were replaced when I put the engine in.
I just towed the bug home and dropped it, haven't looked it over yet.
Of all the places for it to break down choosing an offramp with a wide shoulder was decent of it.

Thoughts?

[Cusser]

Wow, have never seen a video with an actual breakdown before.

If you can push the VW in neutral, then I'm afraid Mr. Engine is going to need to be pulled, so you can try turning with a wrench over while dis-connected from the engine.

Assuming that the engine then cannot be turned, I'd pull the pushrods out (or rockers off) and then see if the engine turns.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[goober]

"I can rock the pulley back and forth a bit but it gets stuck at a certain point"

Not good. Sucked a valve? The head probably popped off one of your
exhaust valves.

Of course, I could be wrong.

[anthax]

Take off the valve covers and take a look at the valve steams.

If nothing shows, remove engine and pull the heads.

[mjtracy]

May just be something in the clutch pack. I had a throwout actuator arm fail and caused what initially felt like a seized engine. Once I pulled the engine, could see the issue. Hopefully something this simple and cheap for you.

[TDCTDI]

It either swallowed a valve or a connecting rod cut loose.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[Zundfolge1432]

Congratulations you are now a member of the brotherhood. Do you feel ok splitting the case if need be?

[ghiaguy_67]

You have oil???? Any major oil leak present?? Is there an obstruction in the back of the fan?? Did the generator light come on for any duration before this happened? Generator belt still there?? Those are a few things to look at for a possible cause of engine seizing

[Volks Wagen]

That engine rev sounds like it dropped into 3rd gear. Either that or the rotating mass suddenly got lighter...
It's hard to hear with the radio.

I wonder, I wonder.. if the flywheel just popped off.
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.

I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.

Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.

[Vanillagurilla]

pull the valve covers and if that checks out then you need to pull the motor and check the flywheel/clutch.

[Brian]

When mine did that, the valve broke at the stem and got punched back into the head. Basically locked the piston in place.

Bummer
_________________
Wash your hands

'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper

Only losers litter

[windfish]

Thanks all, wanted to get an idea of what I was going in to.

Pulled the rocker arms and found the issue

#3's exhaust valve.
Didn't give me any warning (well, except how nasty the heads looked), I checked the valves ~500 miles ago and they were holding their settings fine.

Ah well. I'll pull it apart this weekend and check the damage.
Likely go ahead and start the rebuild of the other engine (just a sunken valve seat, but while it's down 's probably worth going over it), and now that I've moved I have a place to do it.
Will be my first time splitting an engine, should be fun.

[Brian]

Yea pulling the engine is fun. Got a pump puller?
_________________
Wash your hands

'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper

Only losers litter

[windfish]

Yep, I put a CB Maxi2 in it.. which apparently may require a mod to the tool to pull it? Was skimming the performance board the other day..

Between engine, clutch, and transmission issues I'm probably approaching a dozen engine drops on this thing (the transmission issue was obnoxious). So that part I've got down.
I stripped this engine down to longblock prior to install, and removed the heads on my other engine, but that's as far as I've gone.

[Pruneman99]

Oh the dreaded #3 valve lunch. Rebuild time.

What brand oil? "Oil sands"? Lol that head is gunky!

[VW_Jimbo]

Sorry man! I had a 73 Super that ate the #3 exhaust valve. Complete rebuild time.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[bluebus86]

the late model motors have the doghouse type cooling system, which should help prevent #3 exhaust valve from getting too hot. Did the effected motor have a doghouse cooling system?

Hope the repair goes well

Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[Zundfolge1432]

Dropped #3 exhaust fairly common even with dual ports. Seen a bunch and have been on board for it twice myself, Both times engine was running like a top and both were dual ports. The only indication this might be getting ready to happen is a valve that is losing clearance between adjustments. It’s been said this can happen anytime after 40 to 60k miles this is why a proactive approach of doing a top end rebuild after 40k mi. Is cheap insurance. At highway speeds the dropped valve can beat around ruining head and piston then usually spreads metal all through the lower end. Too bad it makes a real mess

As for the sludge it probably doesn’t matter what oil he used. What is evident is infrequent oil changes and or possible overheat or very high miles. As you see these engines like a keen eye and meticulous attention to maintenance intervals.

[Q-Dog]

First engine I rebuilt was from a 1972 Beetle that dropped the #3 exhaust valve. I was the first person to pull the engine from that car. I believe 1977 or 78, so 5 or 6 years old vehicle. Oh, and I was riding in it when the valve let go.
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle

[windfish]

Yep, '72 dual port with all stock German tin, which is one of the reasons I went ahead and bought it despite it looking a bit worn and the heads being filthy. Also has a Mexican Bosch SVDA.
It cleaned up quite well

Again I only put the last 3k miles on it, no idea how many it's had since the last rebuild or how it was cared for prior. Knew it was a bit of a gamble, is what it is.
Guy I got it from bought it with a pan he wanted parts off of, so he didn't have any history other than it ran.
And it did, til today.

Will see about getting it running again; have to pull it and check how bad the damage is, then figure if I'm starting on this one or my other engine first.

Thanks again guys