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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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 Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: Clutch confusion |
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Put my rebuilt engine in and having some issues. Tried adjusting the clutch and doesn't want to go into reverse at all and other gears are iffy at best. I have to be upfront in that I have never replaced a clutch before and not really sure how to diagnose the issue. Here is what I have done/not done:
I have an oddball flywheel that is a 200mm 6volt flywheel. It was resurfaced. Clutch is a 200mm Kushlock. Pressure plate looks like the one on the right. Pic taken from the gallery:
I reused the throwout bearing as it was working fine before and looked better than the sachs one that I got from my local parts store.
I have tried adjusting the clutch cable in and out so that I have gone from tons of play to none and several positions in between. None of these results in being able to get into reverse without grinding the crap out of it and when it does, it kills the engine almost immediately.
I didnt notice it at first, but now it feels like a vibration through the clutch pedal. I was careful in putting the throwout bearing back in to get the bent part of the clips where they belong and in the grooves on the back of the bearing.
Probably a really stupid question, but would the fact that the car in in the air have any relevance? Again, Im stupid when it comes to this as Ive literally never dealt with it. Car prior to swapping engines, shifted and ran fine. I also tried readjusting the shifter. Makes no difference.
Bowden tube was replaced not long ago so it should be good.
*edit- If I start the car and run it through the gears as if I am driving it, seems to do well until I push the clutch in and hold it. Engine almost dies. Do I have a parts mismatch?
Any input is helpful.
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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What year is transaxle (which vw) ....
Does it have the old style T.O. bearing?...
Dale
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Last edited by Dale M. on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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Transaxle is the original 64. Has the old style TOB.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Pruneman99
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Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| Could your clutch cable be shreading and stretching out? How much cable end extends past the adjuster? |
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Sharp64
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Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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Newish clutch cable( 1-2 years old but less than 1000 miles on it) I can adjust out all the play, but does seem to have a lot of threads sticking past the wing nut when I do. Doesn’t make a difference. Almost seems worse the more play I take out. If I start the engine and rest my foot in the clutch I can feel a vibration.
Trying to throw as much info out as possible, but on subsequent sessions if I start the engine and then shift into first it seems to shift fairly decent. But if I go up the gears and then try to go back down, while pressing the brakes to slow the wheels, getting back into first is not good. Still can’t touch reverse.
Is the clutch disk supposed to be able to move when the pressure plate is tightened down? Again probably a stupid question, but I thought it should move a little but it was literally set rigid between the pressure plate and flywheel.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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richierich
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Joined: December 23, 2004
Posts: 889
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| No, the disc shouldn't move once the pressure plate is tightened down. You did use a centering tool when you installed it? |
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Sharp64
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Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| richierich wrote: |
| No, the disc shouldn't move once the pressure plate is tightened down. You did use a centering tool when you installed it? |
Yes I did.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Vanillagurilla
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Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| Bowden tube? No the clutch plate shouldn't move until you push the clutch. Did you surface the flywheel? Also some times the flywheel and pressure plate are balanced together but that doesnt sound like the problem. Maybe one of the spings on the arm of the pressure plate is broken. |
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Sharp64
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Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| Bowden tube? No the clutch plate shouldn't move until you push the clutch. Did you surface the flywheel? Also some times the flywheel and pressure plate are balanced together but that doesnt sound like the problem. Maybe one of the spings on the arm of the pressure plate is broken. |
See above. Newish Bowden tube and resurfaced flywheel.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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richierich
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Joined: December 23, 2004
Posts: 889
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| Sharp64 wrote: |
| richierich wrote: |
| No, the disc shouldn't move once the pressure plate is tightened down. You did use a centering tool when you installed it? |
Yes I did. |
Ok. Not trying to be a **** here but did you check that the clutch disc went in with the correct side towards the transmission? |
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Pruneman99
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Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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I'm leaning towards a problem with the throw out bearing arm or the pressure plate. Like something broke and the clutch is not operating correctly.
If the car is on the ground, in gear, clutch depressed, with the engine running, can you feel if the clutch is dragging and still trying to move the car? Maybe try with the car on flat ground, and brakes off. If the clutch isn't letting go all the way the car may want to move. |
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FreeBug
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Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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Did you check/grease the needle bearing inside the gland nut?
Are you sure the clutch tube inside the tunnel is not detached at one of the welds? You should be able to hear something clank around if it is, though.
The vibration issue points to the surface on the pressure plate where the throw-out bearing pushes is not square with the flywheel. |
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Pruneman99
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Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| FreeBug wrote: |
Did you check/grease the needle bearing inside the gland nut?
Are you sure the clutch tube inside the tunnel is not detached at one of the welds? You should be able to hear something clank around if it is, though.
The vibration issue points to the surface on the pressure plate where the throw-out bearing pushes is not square with the flywheel. |
That's a good point. The needle bearing in the gland nut could be seizing up. |
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maui
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Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| What freebug said because happen to me and I greased my glandnut bearing and problem went away wen I press in the clutch. |
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Boolean
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Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 1712
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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There is only one way to find out. Do not drive the car again, take the engine out and look for bad parts or parts installed wrong.
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| richierich wrote: |
| Sharp64 wrote: |
| richierich wrote: |
| No, the disc shouldn't move once the pressure plate is tightened down. You did use a centering tool when you installed it? |
Yes I did. |
Ok. Not trying to be a **** here but did you check that the clutch disc went in with the correct side towards the transmission? |
I checked prior to putting it in. Nipple side towards trans.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| FreeBug wrote: |
Did you check/grease the needle bearing inside the gland nut?
Are you sure the clutch tube inside the tunnel is not detached at one of the welds? You should be able to hear something clank around if it is, though.
The vibration issue points to the surface on the pressure plate where the throw-out bearing pushes is not square with the flywheel. |
Yes
Nothing is clanking around and as mentioned zero issues before the engine swap. Always shifted very nicely.
I’m pulling the engine tomorrow I think to see whats happened. I’m guessing the pressure plate is junk. I reused the one that came with the engine as it looks decent and I didn’t see anything broken.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| Pruneman99 wrote: |
I'm leaning towards a problem with the throw out bearing arm or the pressure plate. Like something broke and the clutch is not operating correctly.
If the car is on the ground, in gear, clutch depressed, with the engine running, can you feel if the clutch is dragging and still trying to move the car? Maybe try with the car on flat ground, and brakes off. If the clutch isn't letting go all the way the car may want to move. |
Car is currently on stands as I wanted to adjust the clutch prior to driving. I may lower it down to see if something changes. Worth a shot but I’m pretty certain the engines coming out. Damn.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine
Last edited by Sharp64 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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| Boolean wrote: |
| There is only one way to find out. Do not drive the car again, take the engine out and look for bad parts or parts installed wrong. |
Haven’t driven it. Just running it through the gears on the stands. I asked above if this would make a difference.
How much forward/reverse play should there be on the coupler under the access panel on the tunnel? I took the plate off and moved the shifter around and didn’t see side to side play but did notice some front to back. Maybe 1/8” or so.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine
Last edited by Sharp64 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Type 5 Joe
Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1795
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch confusion |
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A common problem I have seen is the metal clutch tube that runs through the tunnel has broken free of its welds.
You have to do a bit of surgery to fix it.
Check all other potential problems, then look into this.
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