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digg75
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2017
Posts: 105
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:05 am Post subject: Wheel setup |
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What setup do you ride on?
I`m about to buy a new set of wheels. Took notes/measurements and pics, saved it on my laptop but it broke down. Now I can`t remember the prev. setup..
I had 914 wheels ET35, 15x5,5 with 165/50 on before.
Planning on buying JBW P356 and they come in either 4,5 inch (ET +45) or
5,5 (ET +25 inch. Same size on the tire.
I only have an old photo of the car with my old setup but it`s not the best way of deciding what setup might work.
What do you guys ride on?
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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My set up can be found in the huge tire and rim thread in this forum. In fact you might find your info in that thread too. I haven't changed anything from when I posted it.
And about the only change I'm trying to decide on is whether to keep the 195-60-15's on the front, or switch to 205-55-15's. I like the idea of having more rubber meeting the road. I'm already running 205-65-15's on the rear.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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danielzink
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Joined: August 03, 2004
Posts: 282
Location: Lansing Michigan
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
My set up can be found in the huge tire and rim thread in this forum. In fact you might find your info in that thread too. I haven't changed anything from when I posted it.
And about the only change I'm trying to decide on is whether to keep the 195-60-15's on the front, or switch to 205-55-15's. I like the idea of having more rubber meeting the road. I'm already running 205-65-15's on the rear. |
Its interesting...your choices and why. I agree with them. Though mine is a 412 two door coupe....the stance, length, width and weight distribution are similar.
The 2nd biggest change/improvement in handling I made to my 412....was when I changed to stock aftermarket 5.5" x 15" (Mangels Chrome).....and went to 205/60-15's all around.
Yes....hard daily driving....lower sidewalls...sticky tread...and flat out....more rubber on the road (along with getting the stance slightly lower). The handling improved 200%. The slipping and sliding dropped in wet high speed weather....so safety drastically improved.
Good sticky tires helped. But what was sticky back in the early 2000's....also had a 30K tread life....and worth every penny. I was running Continental sport contacts...and they were soft enough I could leave fingernail marks in them.
I mention this because over several years...I went to 205/55-15 and them to 205/50-15....and back to 205/60's...and eventually to 205/65-15 again.
Mind you these were all the same tire brand, series and rating mentioned above.
The best riding/handling balance was the 205/60-15.
It was already so much lower sidewall to tread width ratio wise than the 155 or 165/80-15 (132-ish mm sidewall) that was stock or the 185-70 or 75-15's (138mm-ish sidewall) that car came with as the first dealer upgrade option.....that along with suspension mods....the just about 40mm wider tread and 123-ishmm sidewalls.....the handling, safety and smoothness was excellent.
The 205-50's...flat out were stiff enough that on 411 and 412...it caused enough less sidewall flex that wet driving became noticeably worse....and noise/vibration was higher.....and they started killing ball joints (its a type 4 thing). To stiff. With uprated shocks and struts and bushings....205/-55 was as low as I should go....and not ideal....but in dry conditions they did handle superbly
But....at one point I could not get the 205/60-15 and went with a 205/65-15....and....with no discernible difference....between the 205/60 and 206/65...and my speedometer was back to near factory accuracy.
Where I am going with this commentary.....is that back in the day I was also driving a water cooled rabbit around the same time...so I was looking and paying attention to the water cooled tread width to sidewall to diameter ratios and found that they were on the same "brain track"....a bit less sidewall and a bit more tread width....but not enough to "detract" from wet service or wear parts out.
So the equivalent water cooled to the 205-60-15 was the 195/55-14 or 195/60-14.
Cut to today.....with water cooled cars....and the stock excellent handling tires on my 2006 Jetta and 2012 Golf....mind you with much improved suspension systems and very, very much improved tires....is a 195-60-15 tire.
The new tires are so good...and variable weather tread compounds so good....that I am thinking of running the same tires....195-60-15 continental Eco pure all weather...on my 412...and they are widely available.
It will still give quite a low side wall 117mm-ish.....and while only 10mm wider than the best dealer upgrade back in the day (185mm)....those 185's had a 139 to 148mm sidewall...and were virtually balloons......the 195/60-15s at 117mm-ish sidewalls are pretty damn close to the sidewalls of the 205/60-15 (123mm-ish)
Ray |
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marchi
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2005
Posts: 646
Location: Abilene, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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started with 914's with 195/55 all the way around
then i grew up to 17" 914's with 205/40 all the way around
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I drive my VW or I walk
'70 Squareback
'21 Tiguan (daughters)
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'69 Fastback (Flamer) |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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Ray, what I found with the 165-80-15's (stock replacement tires) was I was having trouble in dry weather corning on the freeway, not to mention braking on dry surfaces in general (easy lock up of the fronts). When we went to Pennsylvania back in 2004, I was having to work too hard trying to stay in my own lane going down hill and turning at the same time. Basically the car was under tired. I ended doing a little research and found the 195-60-15 cleared the front even with the wrong offset rims I'd had on the car since I put it together, but liked the look of. However, like you mentioned, while handling much better, threw the speedo off. In the rear I went with 205-65-15's because they are taller but also match the outside diameter of the 165-80-15's (keeps the rear gearing the same), and also clear the rear fenders. The car handles much better with the tire combo, but I'd like to find a better tire for the fronts, as they are currently aged out, and are dry rotting. I believe the 205-55-15 is pretty close to the 195-60-15's in overall diameter, but I'll have to check it with the Miata tire calculator. If not, I'll go with the 195-60's again. My car does have a 2 spline inner drop up front, and a 49 year old rear torsion bar droop. I have no plans on altering it thru the suspension, as I already have enough road hazards around here to deal with (RR tracks, pot holes, bridge abutments, etc...).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Ray, what I found with the 165-80-15's (stock replacement tires) was I was having trouble in dry weather corning on the freeway, not to mention braking on dry surfaces in general (easy lock up of the fronts). When we went to Pennsylvania back in 2004, I was having to work too hard trying to stay in my own lane going down hill and turning at the same time. Basically the car was under tired. I ended doing a little research and found the 195-60-15 cleared the front even with the wrong offset rims I'd had on the car since I put it together, but liked the look of. However, like you mentioned, while handling much better, threw the speedo off. In the rear I went with 205-65-15's because they are taller but also match the outside diameter of the 165-80-15's (keeps the rear gearing the same), and also clear the rear fenders. The car handles much better with the tire combo, but I'd like to find a better tire for the fronts, as they are currently aged out, and are dry rotting. I believe the 205-55-15 is pretty close to the 195-60-15's in overall diameter, but I'll have to check it with the Miata tire calculator. If not, I'll go with the 195-60's again. My car does have a 2 spline inner drop up front, and a 49 year old rear torsion bar droop. I have no plans on altering it thru the suspension, as I already have enough road hazards around here to deal with (RR tracks, pot holes, bridge abutments, etc...). |
Yes...very well put. The 411/412 with Mcpherson stfuts had the same problem.....and you put it correctly....."under tired".
It makes them flat out "squirrelly"....and to add to the misery....if you are at normal suspension height and have the huge stock sidewalls.....you get tons of crosswind directional change and float at highway speeds....which makes you have less tread pressure on the ground at any given time.
Also the object is not to go so wide that you have so much pavement friction that you have not enough hp to drive it.....and as an example....even if I had the room for it a 205 is as wide as I would go on a type 3 or 4 unless you are at or above 125hp.
Add to that....going below 50 series in a 205 tirewidth has as many drawbacks as benefits. Yes...flatter handling.....but beating your teeth and suspension out....and hard on rims. Unless Im auto crossing.....not worthwhile. Ray |
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Max Welton
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Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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digg75
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2017
Posts: 105
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:51 am Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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@marchi
Your setup, 17" 205/40. What`s how wide and ET?
Looks as we have a similar ridehight.
I`m planning on 15"x5,5. ET+25 front and back.
Tire 165/55 in the front
185,195/55 in the back. |
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marchi
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2005
Posts: 646
Location: Abilene, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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@digg75 I have Old Speed narrowed control arms in front stock ride in rear. Wheels are 17x7s ET40, not sure on "clicks" low but i sit 22.5" from ground to top of wheels well
_________________
I drive my VW or I walk
'70 Squareback
'21 Tiguan (daughters)
SOLD
'69 Fastback (Flamer) |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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| Max Welton wrote: |
Bob you might try 205x65s on the front as well as the rear. That's what I had on my near stock height 68 and will be running on the 67 as well. I was very happy the both the ride and the handling.
Max |
I can't run them in front, as they are too tall (I'm down 2 inner splines up front).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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marchi
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2005
Posts: 646
Location: Abilene, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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195/55 was a great fat low tire, plenty of clearance. ran them for 5yrs. i use willtheyfit.com to play with tire sizes to see how they will change speedo and compared to factory size
_________________
I drive my VW or I walk
'70 Squareback
'21 Tiguan (daughters)
SOLD
'69 Fastback (Flamer) |
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digg75
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2017
Posts: 105
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel setup |
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| @marchi, thanks. Nice ride btw! |
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