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SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR?
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geoffraynak
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Location: BEND OR
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

Hey Everyone
Relatively new to the Westy / Vanagon world ...

We recently purchased a 91 syncro with an SVX transplant
We love the van and have done some interior/drivetrain work ...

And now it is time to lift the 'hood' and get some work done on the powerplant.

I'm brave enough to do work myself ... but smart enough to ask for help before I start tearing stuff apart.

Is there anyone in Bend OR who is willing to trade some beers/stories in exchange for giving me a general lay-of-the-land with the SVX?
I'd prefer this versus going to a shop and just shelling out cash ...

It is for sure running rich (strong fuel smell in exhaust) ... and I'm guessing it is AFM or O2 ... but would love some experienced input before I go too deep.


Many thanks
Geoff
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

Hi Geoff:

I am not close to Bend, but have a few thoughts to get you started:

1. Do you know what year your engine is? This helps a bit with diagnosing some problems.
2. Can you take some pics of your engine compartment and the exhaust system on your rig? This will help me know whose conversion parts were used.

3. For starters, check the coolant temp sensor using the method in the factory service manual, which requires you to do the test both at the sensor and at the ECU end to isolate whether the sensor or the wiring is at fault.

4. Most SVX-to-Vanagon exhaust systems develop cracks over the years. The ingress of ambient air provides a false signal to the ECU which then trims the AFR (Air Fuel Ratio) to an overly-rich state.

5. A technician might have mixed up the wiring connectors for the 1-3-5 oxygen sensor with the 2-4-6 oxygen sensor. Double check.

6. You might have a bad oxygen sensor. If so, replace both. The NTK aftermarket brand is fine - - you don't have to buy these from the Subaru dealer.

7. Most SVX conversions (mine included) place the air filter box and its intake in a very dusty location, so frequent air filter replacement is required.

8. You might just have a bad ignition coil causing a constant or intermittent misfire. Remove all coils and plugs and take pics of the spark plug electrodes to post here.

9. Remember that the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor in the SVX mainly allows the ECU to "learn" new mapping as things wear and age, but also assists the ECU in calculating transitional throttle response AFR trim. In other words, if it is dirty, it will mostly cause a symptom of the engine stumbling when you increase throttle angle, but will usually not cause continuous rich running.

10. Rule out a vacuum leak causing the problem. Many SVX conversions (mine included) required modifying the "log" that attaches to the dual throttle bodies. The modified portion of the "log" can develop a leak depending on how it was modified.

11. Only the Subaru factory thermostat should be used on the SVX engine. Aftermarket units are junk. However, even the factory thermostat can stick open, causing coolant temp to stay below the correct level, thus causing the ECU to over-fuel.


See links to service manual:

https://www.seccs.org/tech/1992%20SVX/index.html
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Eric_Taylor
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

I'm in Bend, but I don't know a thing about the SVX!

If it helps, Subitech HQ is a subaru and vanagon shop. They do conversions over there and appear to do good work, though i've never worked with them.

Johathan Rall, over at Integrity Auto is a vanagon god and someone you ought to get to know. He has do a full range of conversions and is a wealth of knowledge. If you need him, Google the above for contact info. Even if the SVX issues go away, this is a good guy to know.
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geoffraynak
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

@howesight:
thank you for the punch-list ...
i'll start diving in and taking some pictures this weekend
i had found those manuals ... but have not yet really started to dive in

@Eric_Taylor:
yes to BOTH locations
we take our family car to subietech ...
and I met Jonathan last fall ...
indeed the local guru ... and someone i refer constantly
he has done some heavy-lifting work on 'butters' ...

thanks again everyone for the initial homework.
I'm going to try and hunt down the VIN this weekend.

Until then ... here is a quick image of the engine:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LvpZenSHE1HGPD9j7

more soon ... and many many thanks
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gears
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

Geoff

You may have a bad O2 sensor, or the two O2 leads may be accidentally switched. I seem to need new sensors every 3 years or so, and always use the original Denso. Have you checked for stored codes?
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hdenter
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

I know the SVXs have way more power than I would ever need and makes no practical sense for me, but damn they look good in the engine bay!

Hans
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wesitarz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

Possible causes for running rich :
MAF, O2 sensor, unmetered O2 from exhaust leak before O2 sensor, worn engine, exhaust restriction, leaking fuel injector, bad fuel pressure regulator, evap system faulty, high fuel pressure.
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geoffraynak
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

here are some of my observations today ... I'm clearly treading water ... but I'm hoping to learn ...

a few subjective notes:

    the engine seems to run quite well
    no idle stumble or sounds of misfires
    never trouble cold-starting
    once or twice it will stall on hot starts ... but only on hot hot days ... never during Bend winter
    the temp needle (on dash) never makes it to LED ... always stays low ... but heat blows hot once it gets above red

SO ... here is what we have in response to @howesight:

some images of the engine are below.
i can't tell exactly where the VIN is ...
but have included two images of the stampings on the block
it has a smallcar oil pan ...
i am unclear of the history/pedigree of the engine install / installer

    i have NOT tested the coolant temp sensor yet ... i will use the manuals to figure out hoe to test ... likely next weekend when i get some garage space
    i have NOT checked fully for exhaust cracks ... but everything appears relatively solit
    I SEEM TO ONLY HAVE ONE EXHAUST OXYGEN SENSOR
    my intake filter is ... well ... comical ...
    coils and plugs when i get some garage time ...
    the MAF sensor looks good ...
    how best do i test for vacuum leaks?
    i have NOT checked my thermostat ... it seems pretty tricky to get to through the syncro rails


@gears: as state above ... i seem to only have ONE O2 sensor
is that a huge issue?
how do I check 'stored codes'??

@wesitarz:
well noted on all these plausible causes.
I'm committed to learning about the engine ... just want to make sure i take it in bite-sized chunks!

below are images:
overall engine bay:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


throttle area:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


not sure:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


back of block stamping:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


stamping near belts:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


PS exhaust:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


DS Exhaust:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


air 'filter':
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


MAF:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

Sooo. . .

1. Look right past the oxygen sensor in your pic above and you will see sensor #2. Subaru sets up the system so that cylinders 1,3 and 5 get separate AFR trim from cylinders 2, 4 and 6. If the connectors are connected to the wrong sensors, a negative feedback spiral takes over and the system will soon switch over to "limp home" mode with a pre-set AFR that ignores oxygen sensor inputs. I marked my sensor wiring with colour coding to avoid this.

2. Your ineffectual air filter allows the MAF sensor "hot wire" to get dirty. They can be cleaned with spray solvent;

3. The passenger side exhaust flange appears to have some kind of sealant goop where the flange meets the cylinder head. That is fine . . . unless the goop was silicone. Introducing silicone into the exhaust tract quickly ruins the oxygen sensors.

4. Your intake log is, as I anticipated, modified. That is why it has the plastic welding line. This is all fine so long as there are no air leaks, so check for that.

5. The driver's side exhaust flange-to-head junction does appear as though there has been some exhaust leakage there, judging by what appears to be black soot. For reasons I cannot fathom, from time to time, my exhaust flange nuts would loosen. Hit them with a penetrating oil first before tightening - - the exhaust studs sometimes break or turn out of the cylinder head when trying to loosen the nut.

6. The conversion person did not connect your EGR pipe. Without a functioning EGR system, you will lose some power. The reason for this is that while doing its intended job of reducing the engine's production of oxides of nitrogen (AKA "NOx"), the EGR system allows the ECU to run more spark advance at low engine RPM's and low engine loads because the inert exhaust gases reduce the tendency to knock. The ECU uses an exhaust temperature sensor to check if the EGR is functioning properly. When blinking out your Diagnostic Trouble Codes codes(DTC), you will likely see a fault connected with EGR. This is not a huge issue, but without the EGR functioning as designed, you will lose a bit of power and fuel mileage because the retarded spark timing reduces power at any given throttle setting. On these fuel hogs, every bit helps.

7. Remember that every exhaust leak counts since the exhaust flow rapidly oscillates between slight pressure and slight vacuum. The oxygen sensor then senses the ambient oxygen which the ECU uses as a proxy for estimating AFR, and accordingly, adds fuel to burn the "excess" oxygen.

8. It is a good idea to block off your evaporative system pipes shown in the middle of pic number 3. Depending on whether your Evap valve is connected, this can also create a vacuum leak whenever the evap valve opens.
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Hammy1
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

There is only one up stream O2 sensor on each side.

If you need a wiring diagram, here’s one I made one when I installed my 3.3l.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7mnN5DfPjA1QXdPaWJQT1puUFE


You need to download it for full resolution.

Regards’
Jon
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ejimmi
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX / EG33 help in Bend OR? Reply with quote

To check the trouble codes you need to make sure the Subaru ECU has been connected to the VW check engine light in the dash cluster. If not you will need to do that first or hook the lead from the ecu to a test light. The check engine wire is clearly marked on HAMMY1'S awesome wiring diagram.

The following link has a guide to read your trouble codes. Ignore the first step and locate your ECU, then resume to step 2.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13874&d=1271113583


Also, If im not mistaken i believe the 92 ECU just needs the EGR valve connected electrically but gives/gets no diagnostic feedback to/from the ECU until the 93 models. To further complicate If you have an aftermarket chip in the ECU it will likely not need the ECU signal either.
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