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Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle
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Fman
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

I want to raise up my Puma adjustable beam in my '62 beetle, looking for about 1" of lift. My tires will rub on fender when turning into a driveway with a full tank of fuel and two front passengers (200 lbs each). Does not happen with only one person in front of vehicle.

I have done some research on this and still have a couple questions. First, when I raise up the vehicle and the suspension is free hanging will this release all tension on the beam. When I release the jam nuts will there be any tension? Will it be relatively easy to move up the allen bolt to move the tab upward?

If I move the adjuster tabs upward (see attached picture) this will cause the vehicle to raise up? Moving downward will lower the vehicle more?

I was told to not let the allen bolt turn at all when unbolting the two jam nuts. I need to hold the bolt with allen wrench while unbolting the jam nuts?

Thanks for any information...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

Fman wrote:
First, when I raise up the vehicle and the suspension is free hanging will this release all tension on the beam. When I release the jam nuts will there be any tension? Will it be relatively easy to move up the allen bolt to move the tab upward?

If I move the adjuster tabs upward (see attached picture) this will cause the vehicle to raise up? Moving downward will lower the vehicle more?

I was told to not let the allen bolt turn at all when unbolting the two jam nuts. I need to hold the bolt with allen wrench while unbolting the jam nuts?

Thanks for any information...



Exclamation If those are your car beam pictures... it may not have any raising rotation remaining .. those both are turned up pretty close to the top already..


Moving on..

Tension as in loaded spring tension.. ?? yes and no.
When the front wheels are unloaded the spring.... Think well.. torsion bar (leaves) twists and tension is released and the trailing arms drop.. (really raise) ..
If they happen to top the shocks out then YES there will be some residual tension.

So take the shocks loose at one end or the other or remove.
MARK the current AVIS style plate position that way you can reference current setting.
Raise the front allowing the wheels to drop..
Loosen the grub screw lock nuts yes while keeping the grub screw snug.
You may see the lock plates start to creep upward (towards the top of the car)
(Upward is raising.. downward is lowering)
If not gently press down on one tire and the center will spin inside the tube.
Move one to two teeth for each tube..
Lock down reassemble and done or rinse and repeat if its not high enough.
DO NOT over tighten the grub screw or lock nuts..
15 -30 minute job tops..

Oh have it aligned or check the alignment.
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Fman
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
Fman wrote:
First, when I raise up the vehicle and the suspension is free hanging will this release all tension on the beam. When I release the jam nuts will there be any tension? Will it be relatively easy to move up the allen bolt to move the tab upward?

If I move the adjuster tabs upward (see attached picture) this will cause the vehicle to raise up? Moving downward will lower the vehicle more?

I was told to not let the allen bolt turn at all when unbolting the two jam nuts. I need to hold the bolt with allen wrench while unbolting the jam nuts?

Thanks for any information...



Exclamation If those are your car beam pictures... it may not have any raising rotation remaining .. those both are turned up pretty close to the top already..


Moving on..

Tension as in loaded spring tension.. ?? yes and no.
When the front wheels are unloaded the spring.... Think well.. torsion bar (leaves) twists and tension is released and the trailing arms drop.. (really raise) ..
If they happen to top the shocks out then YES there will be some residual tension.

So take the shocks loose at one end or the other or remove.
MARK the current AVIS style plate position that way you can reference current setting.
Raise the front allowing the wheels to drop..
Loosen the grub screw lock nuts yes while keeping the grub screw snug.
You may see the lock plates start to creep upward (towards the top of the car)
(Upward is raising.. downward is lowering)
If not gently press down on one tire and the center will spin inside the tube.
Move one to two teeth for each tube..
Lock down reassemble and done or rinse and repeat if its not high enough.
DO NOT over tighten the grub screw or lock nuts..
15 -30 minute job tops..

Oh have it aligned or check the alignment.


Thanks for the info, the current adjustment has about another 1/4 to go (10-12 teeth) before it is topped out. I am hopeful it will be enough to raise up the front at least 1/2". I just installed the empi front disc conversion, I think my drop spindles on the drum brakes were 2" and the empi kit is 2 1/2". This is why I am rubbing now after the conversion. Prior to disc conversion I had no issues with tire clearance. The empi kit did not seem to push out wheels at all from what I can see.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

FWIW, just adjusted it today and it came up about 1 1/2", which is perfect now. No rubbing with two adults in front and full tank of fuel. I am also noticing it seems to ride a little better, so all is good! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

Disk brake kits do push the wheels out close to an inch per side. It’s why people typically go to a narrower beam.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

Sharp64 wrote:
Disk brake kits do push the wheels out close to an inch per side. It’s why people typically go to a narrower beam.


I do have a 2" narrowed beam, I originally put on the Wilwood db kit and it pushed the wheels out a good 1 1/4" which was no good. The EMPI zero offset kit with drop spindle seemed to be about the same width as the factory drum brakes/drop spindles I had on there.

I must say the EMPI kit is better than I expected, I know it is proudly made in China but the quality was better than I expected and it stops the vehicle so much better than the factory drum brakes.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

sorry for bringing back this post but i tried to follow the procedure and didn't work for me. This is what i did
1) Raised the front of the car so wheels don't touch the ground
2) Loosen the nuts in both adjusters
3) When tension was released the adjusters moved downwards and not upwards Confused
4) It was really hard to get them to move upwards
5) I ended up tightening the nuts in a lower position than i started with

Any clues?

Thanks in advance
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

Did you remove the front shocks? If they are at their full extension, then they will keep the trailing arms up enough to preload the springs so that the adjuster will move the opposite direction than the way necessary to raise the car.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
Did you remove the front shocks? If they are at their full extension, then they will keep the trailing arms up enough to preload the springs so that the adjuster will move the opposite direction than the way necessary to raise the car.


no...i didn't..i will try it and get back to you
thanks
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

ppge01 wrote:
TDCTDI wrote:
Did you remove the front shocks? I.


no...i didn't..i will try it and get back to you
thanks


Pfff.. Rolling Eyes that was step one in my directions.. go back and read..
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Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
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Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
ppge01 wrote:
TDCTDI wrote:
Did you remove the front shocks? I.


no...i didn't..i will try it and get back to you
thanks


Pfff.. Rolling Eyes that was step one in my directions.. go back and read..


yes you are right
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

ppge01 wrote:
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
ppge01 wrote:
TDCTDI wrote:
Did you remove the front shocks? I.


no...i didn't..i will try it and get back to you
thanks


Pfff.. Rolling Eyes that was step one in my directions.. go back and read..


yes you are right


i repeated the procedure with the shocks off
worked perfect
front is higher now and the alignment is even better but i ll have it checked anyway
thank you very much
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

Same problem so I’ll keep it in this thread…

I haven’t screwed with this mess since I got the car 8 years ago, but I want to understand what has happened here. Purchased it this way, it is low, really low and basically no suspension. PO did a lot of hackery on different areas that I’ve fixed except this. I’ve always thought it rode rough because it is a narrowed beam, I think it is 4 inches. I understand the shorter leaves make it more rigid, less flex.
I only have these two photos right now. Is the top adjuster simply against the leaves and not in line with the trailing arm set screws? How can they be that twisted? All the leaves are in there from what I can see on the ends.
I’m guessing I’m riding on the compressed shocks. Any ideas?
Is the fix: remove the middle set screws, raise it up until I can see the dimple in the middle then re-insert the set screw?
I guess one test would be to un-bolt the shocks and see if it goes down more.

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Thanks,

James
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

James, you have the Sway Away style adjusters on your beam, not the Avis style. They adjust differently (yours is set almost as high as it will goo, might get a little more out of your upper tube). To adjust yours you dont mess with the grub screw or jam nuts, you loosen the other jam nut and run in the set screw against the square block to raise car, or back it out to lower, make sure to retighten jam nut when done.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

The only fix is to remove the beam, cut the adjusters free, rotate them upwards about 1/2” & weld them back in place.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

Jmiddle204 wrote:

I only have these two photos right now. Is the top adjuster simply against the leaves and not in line with the trailing arm set screws? How can they be that twisted? All the leaves are in there from what I can see on the ends.
I’m guessing I’m riding on the compressed shocks. Any ideas?
Thanks, James



Looks like a Link Pin Beam..

If you take the weight off the axle and raise the wheels off the ground letting the suspension hang.. .. the center adjuster grub bolt (lever bolt) should be aligned with and match the end torsion lock grub bolts.

I bet they are installed with all lowering bias

You will have to either cut the adjusters loose and reposition.. or start with a fresh beam .

.


.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies.
After looking at some other photos online of sway-away, link pin beams, my adjusters are generally welded in at about the same rotation as others. Is it possible the leave are installed at the wrong angle? Off by 90 degrees? Would that create the unaligned set screws between the middle and the trailing arms? They are way off, can the shorter leaves flex that much?

I've always expected to scrap this beam but if it is anything simple, I'd obviously go that route.

James
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

That looks like an 8 inch narrowed beam to me, those shock towers are waaaay inside those wells.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

TinCanFab - always wondered and not sure what to measure to confirm, tower to tower? What is a stock beam's width? There was some of the body removed to get them in there. They are right up against the edge, in fact the little bit of body removed accommodated the width of the shock.

I snapped one more photo, I guess they torsion adjuster isn't that far off of from the trailing arm screw once I get them in the same photo.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: Adjustable beam question - raising up my beetle Reply with quote

Jmiddle204 wrote:
Is it possible the leave are installed at the wrong angle? Off by 90 degrees?
can the shorter leaves flex that much?






There is no telling whats inside..

It could have cut ends and leaves in place just to hold it together..
Thats a method Buggy and Rail builders use to soften stock leaves.

No .. in general.. shorter leaves dont flex much at all. You are correct in that thinking..

I doubt they could be installed 90 degrees low it would drastically change the angle of the trailing arms.. .. but.. the leaves are hacked.. so if they are super soft.. .. again anything is possible in the hackary world.


Unless you take the weight off the axle.. jacking up the body.. you cant go by those weighted pictures alone in determining leave installation position

When you DO jack it up.. they will rotate into alignment..
Those narrow leaves are either soft.. or seriously altered to be soft



As for stock width.

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
Joey wrote:

The stock link/king pin beam I have in my garage measures:

Shock tower seam to shock tower seam - 31 3/8"

Tube end to tube end - 34 1/4"

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Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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