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Thinking about other piston options...
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Thanks Luke! I can also help with those 22R pistons at a much better price than AA.

They have about a .080" dish and valve relief. I can turn them into flat tops, which would reduce the compression distance, order them .5 or 1mm oversize, and bore/hone the 92mm thick walls for correct skirt clearance.

What makes them suitable for boost is their pin wall thickness and their crown thickness.

[email protected] is my email. I hate p/m-ing back and forth.
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rugblaster
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

I spoke to Mike at Wiseco and he said the 94mm forged pistons have a "strut" slipper skirt, they are "cam" machined (the skirt is not round, but "barrel" shaped}, the skirts have ArmorGlide applied to them and the pins are centered. That is weird because he said most of their pistons have offset pins. (I'm thinking about LS chevy slipper pistons)

I asked him why the pins were not machined offset and he said that was what the cam machining and the coating were all about and he said if they were installed at the recommended clearance, there shouldn't be a problem.

I forgot to ask him if the skirt was asymmetrical.

It would be fun (and expensive) to try these at the recommended clearance just to see if they run slap-free. I think they are about $100 a piece with rings.
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Last edited by rugblaster on Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Still a good idea for the right application, although they don't seem to be as low priced anymore.

If you have straight cut gears, and a fk-something cam, and a flowmaster two chamber muffler, I don't think you will be bothered by a little piston slap Wink
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rugblaster
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

I'll call them tomorrow......and get the particulars. With the way they make asymmetrical, barrel-shaped skirts on these slipper skirt pistons, it is doubtful they wouldn't have an offset pin.
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Type 5 Joe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Yes, I figured the pictures were just stock photos...

I looked on Wiseco's site and you can't search by part number... They want you to plug in make, model, etc... Bullshit.

- Unless I'm missing it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

That part number is in Wiseco's catalog.......Also has footnote numbers "1" and "2" indicating they have pin offset. They are flat tops and are meant for the end user to machine whatever valve notches they need, if needed.

Those photos you're looking at are just generic photos.
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Type 5 Joe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

I looked those up several places on the interweb...

None of the ads I saw said they were machined for wrist pin offset.

Almost every photo showed a water cooled piston with 4 valve reliefs...

Can you post a link to the description / ad you saw?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Wiseco makes part number K001ESV 94mm with offset pin
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

All of the non-wrist pin offset pistons are a bit noisy until they warm up....

That is why they put wrist pin offset in the stock design, to eliminate this.

+ Many of these pistons that were made for other vehicles were designed to be run at water cooled running temperatures...

So the initial cold clearance is a bit more, until they expand.

VW pistons are designed for VW's... The composition of materials, design, etc... Gene Berg made a big deal out of pointing this out when he compared his custom made stuff to others on the market.

BTW, he had his stuff made ie: "Gene Berg Specials" by the OEM suppliers to VW.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Venolia makes them. Not sure the cost, mine were already in the engine.
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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Tabari (bugguy) can supply 96.5mm pistons and thickwall 94mm cylinders machined to suit.
Also, iirc a really low compression height.

I'm sure he'll be along shortly, he's your man.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

slap is a non issue and should be considerd any thing....unless you have tomuch clearance and tight wrist pins . then thats not the pistons pin location fault... I would however look in to v8 piston sets as you can get 8 for the price of 4 many times. manley, dss,diamond ,icon and many others.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

FreeBug wrote:
67rustavenger wrote:
Type 5 Joe wrote:
No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset.

^^^ This is correct. I have a set in my 2180. There is no wrist pin offset.

Good Luck.


How bad is the slap? Is it noticeably louder until it warms up? After warm up? how streetable would you say they are? Thanks

I have no idea. Yet!
The engine is currently waiting for the better weather driving season.
I have it running on the start stand. Time will tell.

It will likely be installed late March or April.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
Type 5 Joe wrote:
No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset.

^^^ This is correct. I have a set in my 2180. There is no wrist pin offset.

Good Luck.


How bad is the slap? Is it noticeably louder until it warms up? After warm up? how streetable would you say they are? Thanks
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Type 5 Joe wrote:
No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset.

^^^ This is correct. I have a set in my 2180. There is no wrist pin offset.

Good Luck.
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Type 5 Joe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

FeelthySanchez wrote:
I noted that both the links show "Centered pin" configuration - which means you'd be driving in piston slap city if they were installed into the flat 4.
Re specs for N/A vs. turbo apps, it mostly has to do w/ strength (forged vs. cast), piston-to-cylinder wall clearances & the ring's butt gaps (turbo needs greater for both).

Having owned/rebuilt a 22R, I've pondered it as well, but found that unless one was rolling in un-needed 22R pistons - not practical.


Does anybody know if these pistons have the offset?

https://aapistons.com/collections/piston-liner-kit...4mm-case-m

If anything, I'll stick to the old tried and true Cima / Mahle. I don't really trust AA pistons.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Sorry if he doesn't want to get pulled into this thread, but it was Modok who talked about it, iirc.

I've ratted him out because I'm also interested in this. I've been thinking AA hypereutectics with an adjustment of the TW cylinders to piston size, and Toyota rings.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Except mahle / Cima and AAAnal

Who else makes a performance piston with wrist pin offset?

All the racing pistons I have used Wiseco, etc... do not.
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FeelthySanchez
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

I noted that both the links show "Centered pin" configuration - which means you'd be driving in piston slap city if they were installed into the flat 4.
Re specs for N/A vs. turbo apps, it mostly has to do w/ strength (forged vs. cast), piston-to-cylinder wall clearances & the ring's butt gaps (turbo needs greater for both).

Having owned/rebuilt a 22R, I've pondered it as well, but found that unless one was rolling in un-needed 22R pistons - not practical.
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I'm not sure how compression works.
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