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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:05 pm Post subject: Different Deck Heights |
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I just checked the deck height on all 4 cylinders
1& 2 are .035
3&4 are .039
I can live with .039 but I'm a little concerned with the .035
Should I be concerned or has anyone else ran the deck that close |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4856 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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Trim 1-2 then rebalance _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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mcmscott wrote: |
Trim 1-2 then rebalance |
If I trim 1&2 won't that bring the deck closer? |
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Vanillagurilla Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017 Posts: 1061 Location: California
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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Lol yeah you can trim the other side or shim up the close side. |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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I think he was taking about the pistons. Bit that seems like a lot of work unless this is a race engine.
Just shim them out where you feel comfortable. Maybe .01? |
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Howard 111 Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005 Posts: 1827 Location: Virginia
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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Howard 111 wrote: |
Put an .004 cylinder shim under 1&2. |
The thinnest shim I can find is .01, is there a place that makes custom shims
If I shim them both at .01 it will throw my compression ratio off |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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Pruneman99 wrote: |
I think he was taking about the pistons. Bit that seems like a lot of work unless this is a race engine.
Just shim them out where you feel comfortable. Maybe .01? |
It's an engine for my daily driver
I'm building a 1955cc
If I shim both sides I will knock my compression ratio off...I'm shooting for 9:1...with .039 I'm right there |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1170 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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how thick is a paper gasket? _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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rugblaster wrote: |
how thick is a paper gasket? |
Good question, never thought of that! I'll measure when I get home!
I've always tossed those things aside...i probably have 50 of them sitting around somewhere in a box since i never throw anything away |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
rugblaster wrote: |
how thick is a paper gasket? |
Good question, never thought of that! I'll measure when I get home!
I've always tossed those things aside...i probably have 50 of them sitting around somewhere in a box since i never throw anything away |
Genius!
But if that doesn't work, I would turn down the cylinders quite a bit, so you can use thicker shims. If you get a full set, no two really match, so you mix & match until you get the deck you want. |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7212 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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FreeBug wrote: |
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
rugblaster wrote: |
how thick is a paper gasket? |
Good question, never thought of that! I'll measure when I get home!
I've always tossed those things aside...i probably have 50 of them sitting around somewhere in a box since i never throw anything away |
Genius!
But if that doesn't work, I would turn down the cylinders quite a bit, so you can use thicker shims. If you get a full set, no two really match, so you mix & match until you get the deck you want. |
Never use papewr gaskets! Even copper gaskets are dubius.
In your case either trim 2 pistons and rebalance, or machine the cylkinders to accomodate a 0,5 mm shim or similar would be the way.
T |
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rodeking Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017 Posts: 369 Location: near Buffalo NY
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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I had the same problem, cut the pistons and re-balanced. I checked the gaskets I had, they were .005 before I threw them in the trash. |
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volksworld Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 2529 Location: formerly NY currently NC
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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paper gaskets are just one more thing to go wrong....have you cc'd the heads? cause if they're not new and have been flycut before one side could have larger chambers than the other....then you may be able to put a .010 under all 4....i personally wouldnt run 9 to 1 on the street but its your car.... |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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volksworld wrote: |
paper gaskets are just one more thing to go wrong....have you cc'd the heads? cause if they're not new and have been flycut before one side could have larger chambers than the other....then you may be able to put a .010 under all 4....i personally wouldnt run 9 to 1 on the street but its your car.... |
The heads are new...dual port big valve, single high rev springs, cc'd to 55.
Why wouldn't you run 9 to 1? What compression is the highest compression you feel comfortable running on the street? |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5966 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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If it's balanced already, trim the cylinders and get shims to sort it. If it's not balanced, trimming the pistons would be my choice.
No need to make more work if you don't need to _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15303 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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I don't have a machine shop in my garage, I have to pay to have it done.
The best solution would be trim .004" off 1&2 pistons then rebalance all 4. That would give you .039" deck height across all 4 cylinders.
If it were my engine I would put a .010" shim under the barrels and build it. Worrying about 8.9 or 9.0 compression won't make a bit of difference on a street engine and is just plain being anal. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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eazy put them all at .035, mine are .034 seems to work just fine. |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1170 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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I am old enough to have had the opportunity to have repaired original VW air-cooled engines from the factory. (virgin engines, if you will) They all had paper gaskets on the cylinders. I also remember using a single edge razor blade to physically remove the paper gaskets. They were stuck pretty good. Paper gaskets are still used in some instances, not just VW cylinders. It is just easier to slop some RTV on the cylinder base and slap in on. You actually have to pay attention when using the paper and that is difficult for some people
to grasp. In certain circumstances, paper would be a viable choice.
Also, with larger cylinders, the paper gaskets choice is mute anyway. _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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i_luv_my_bus76 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012 Posts: 371 Location: High Desert
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Different Deck Heights |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
I don't have a machine shop in my garage, I have to pay to have it done.
The best solution would be trim .004" off 1&2 pistons then rebalance all 4. That would give you .039" deck height across all 4 cylinders.
If it were my engine I would put a .010" shim under the barrels and build it. Worrying about 8.9 or 9.0 compression won't make a bit of difference on a street engine and is just plain being anal. |
Can I get some clarification...if it were your engine would you trim then shim with a .010...or just shim with a .010 |
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