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Mutterranch Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2016 Posts: 61 Location: Three Forks, Montana
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: Chipped valve adjusters |
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What can cause this? The motor is brand new (500 miles) and was built by a reputable builder and frequent poster here on the samba. I'm completely stumped. The photos are of #2 & #4 cylinders but the others show similar chips mostly on exhaust valves.
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9767 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Mutterranch wrote: |
What can cause this? The motor is brand new (500 miles) and was built by a reputable builder and frequent poster here on the samba. I'm completely stumped.
[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/hn3kyvq7gyf2i4p/P1010080.jpg?dl=0[/img][img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zd52ugf2af0q1u/P1010090.jpg?dl=0[/img] |
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the rocker geo is off.
Can you post pics of the rocker at 0 lift?
1/2 lift?
and full lift?
Also what is the cam and rockers?
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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FeelthySanchez Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2011 Posts: 1349 Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Brittle metallurgy, or they might be binding-up.
As suggested, verify proper rocker geometry & try the 911 or Courier type. _________________
modok wrote: |
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing. |
Ryan Tucker wrote: |
Enough clue..Whats that mean? |
OldIronSpine wrote: |
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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busman78 Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004 Posts: 4522 Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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I have never been able to use those without grinding the rocker arm down, it prevents the cup from hitting the base of the rocker arm on the down stroke whether you have geometry right or wrong.
Sorry it is a terrible picture but yo can see the trimming, stock on right, trimmed on left.
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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so nobody noticed the rockers were infact clearanced???ON THE RONG FUCKING SIDE!!! they clearanced them on the nut side....you cant fix stupid. "A REPUTABLE BUILDER" SORRY BUT THATS WHAT I SEE.
throw it all away and get some cb rockers&swivel ball feet and set the geo right.prep them all right, do what needs to be done and do it right then send the bill to the repoatable builder. |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9767 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Uh! Those chips went somewhere.
Did you by chance do you have a oil screen in place?
I didn't, on my build earlier this year. When I had a major part fail. The aluminum chips caused the engine to loose oil pressure. When the chips got jammed into the oil pump gears.
If not. Is this a full flow build?
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
Last edited by 67rustavenger on Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sawed off Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 428 Location: Idaho
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Pull the oil screen, hopefully the pieces didnt go to pump. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26787 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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mark tucker wrote: |
so nobody noticed the rockers were infact clearanced???ON THE RONG FUCKING SIDE!!! they clearanced them on the nut side....you cant fix stupid. |
He's right,
yes we can fix stupid. Put the rockers in the Scrap bin, and start over. |
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Mutterranch Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2016 Posts: 61 Location: Three Forks, Montana
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Thanks guys. I appreciate the comments. I’ve only had this motor since Oct. so I’m not a real happy camper. I just gave notice to the builder. Now the ball is in his court and we’ll see how he handles his warranty.
I’ll post again after we talk. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15307 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Nobody mentioned it but the elephant feet adjusters are supposed to be soaked in oil 24 hrs before installed. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7391
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busman78 Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004 Posts: 4522 Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Both sides of those rockers needed trimming for that adjuster, rockers are still usable, trim the bottom, there is lots of meat still there. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21518 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Having seen it happen numerous times over the years......that damage is exactly caused by not enough clearance for the head/cup of the adjuster underneath the rocker as others have mentioned already.
Yes...as Dave mentioned....these adjusters should be soaked in oil before installing....but what not doing that typically causes is seizure of the ball in the cup and snapping off of ends.
Other issues.....as others have mentioned....in the first picture....the geometry and centering of the adjuster looks like sh*t. These adjusters are NOT a crutch/excuse to not set geometry with proper pushrod length.
Lastly.....are those lash caps I am seeing underneath these adjusters? If so ....they are not onpy totally unnecessary with swivel feet....but stupid....and would also be a direct cause of not enough clearance. Ray |
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volksworld Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 2529 Location: formerly NY currently NC
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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hard to see from the pic but i think there's a thread or 2 of the adjuster showing...i think it may be running out of travel and hitting the edge of the adjuster rather than the bottom of the rocker...or both...definately bad geometry....you need to see what it looks like at full lift |
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Mutterranch Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2016 Posts: 61 Location: Three Forks, Montana
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Here's pics of #3 exhaust fully open and fully closed. Geometry?
Also, the builder of this $4550 long block just responded to my request for warranty repair with this, "We can send a different style of adjuster, but you'll have to put them in. If this is ok let me know."
What would you do?
I'm having trouble posting the pictures. I'll edit soon.
[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/v3i3p3wpyytj9lj/P1010094.jpg?dl=0[/img][img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/e1g20f33n7anelt/P1010093.jpg?dl=0[/img]
Last edited by Mutterranch on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3442 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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The adjusters slamming into the rocker arms must have made alot of noise. Hard to believe someone didnt say anything when it was started |
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Mutterranch Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2016 Posts: 61 Location: Three Forks, Montana
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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OK, got the pictures into the gallery. Thanks for the tip.
What does the geometry look like to you?
Also, what adjusters would you use if not these?
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7391
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Chipped valve adjusters |
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Cannot tell without the lift measurements.
Looks like bolt together rocker shafts and HD aluminum pushrods.
What camshaft are you running? What kind of heads and springs?
At the very least you need to take apart those rockers and clearance the ends with a mill or grinder. Clean everything and reassemble and check geometry with the new adjusters. |
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