Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Thinking about other piston options...
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dubman67
Samba Member


Joined: April 10, 2003
Posts: 146
Location: Big Sky Country
dubman67 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

A while back there was a thread about using Toyota 22R (2.4L) 92mm pistons. I cannot find that thread now or remember who was talking in it.
Has anybody tried it?
The compression height is 5.36mm lower than AA 92 pistons which would be damn near ideal for the 84mm 5.5 crank / rod combo I want to build. The pin diameter is the same as VW.
Here is the link to the specs -
https://uempistons.com/i-25276-1-set-ic987-030-1-set-3622dd4-030.html

Summit Racing has them -
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic987ktd-std

My engine is going to be NA, while the specs show these are for turbo applications. Does that really matter?
My thoughts are using AA thick wall 92 Jugs with these pistons for a pretty close to stock width motor.
_________________
67 Bug
04 R32
"At 17 got my first Volkswagen...and mastered the life long art of dragin...." Ice Cube
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Type 5 Joe
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1778
Location: Oregon
Type 5 Joe is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Looks like it might work... The wrist pins look like they are much shorter.

Looks like they come in .010" .020" .030" over sizes too...

That would be handy if you needed to custom hone a set of thick wall 92's for your engine.
_________________
If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...

I don't use the P.M. service on here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
FeelthySanchez
Samba Member


Joined: February 03, 2011
Posts: 1349
Location: Just departed tattoo parlor. Now shopping for trenchcoat.
FeelthySanchez is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

I noted that both the links show "Centered pin" configuration - which means you'd be driving in piston slap city if they were installed into the flat 4.
Re specs for N/A vs. turbo apps, it mostly has to do w/ strength (forged vs. cast), piston-to-cylinder wall clearances & the ring's butt gaps (turbo needs greater for both).

Having owned/rebuilt a 22R, I've pondered it as well, but found that unless one was rolling in un-needed 22R pistons - not practical.
_________________
modok wrote:
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing.
Ryan Tucker wrote:
Enough clue..Whats that mean?
OldIronSpine wrote:
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Type 5 Joe
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1778
Location: Oregon
Type 5 Joe is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Except mahle / Cima and AAAnal

Who else makes a performance piston with wrist pin offset?

All the racing pistons I have used Wiseco, etc... do not.
_________________
If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...

I don't use the P.M. service on here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
FreeBug
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 2878
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
FreeBug is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Sorry if he doesn't want to get pulled into this thread, but it was Modok who talked about it, iirc.

I've ratted him out because I'm also interested in this. I've been thinking AA hypereutectics with an adjustment of the TW cylinders to piston size, and Toyota rings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dubman67
Samba Member


Joined: April 10, 2003
Posts: 146
Location: Big Sky Country
dubman67 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

FeelthySanchez wrote:
I noted that both the links show "Centered pin" configuration - which means you'd be driving in piston slap city if they were installed into the flat 4.
Re specs for N/A vs. turbo apps, it mostly has to do w/ strength (forged vs. cast), piston-to-cylinder wall clearances & the ring's butt gaps (turbo needs greater for both).

Having owned/rebuilt a 22R, I've pondered it as well, but found that unless one was rolling in un-needed 22R pistons - not practical.


Does anybody know if these pistons have the offset?

https://aapistons.com/collections/piston-liner-kit...4mm-case-m

If anything, I'll stick to the old tried and true Cima / Mahle. I don't really trust AA pistons.
_________________
67 Bug
04 R32
"At 17 got my first Volkswagen...and mastered the life long art of dragin...." Ice Cube
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Type 5 Joe
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1778
Location: Oregon
Type 5 Joe is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset.
_________________
If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...

I don't use the P.M. service on here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
67rustavenger Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 4642
Location: Hillsboro, Or.
67rustavenger is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Type 5 Joe wrote:
No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset.

^^^ This is correct. I have a set in my 2180. There is no wrist pin offset.

Good Luck.
_________________
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
FreeBug
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 2878
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
FreeBug is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
Type 5 Joe wrote:
No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset.

^^^ This is correct. I have a set in my 2180. There is no wrist pin offset.

Good Luck.


How bad is the slap? Is it noticeably louder until it warms up? After warm up? how streetable would you say they are? Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
67rustavenger Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 4642
Location: Hillsboro, Or.
67rustavenger is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

FreeBug wrote:
67rustavenger wrote:
Type 5 Joe wrote:
No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset.

^^^ This is correct. I have a set in my 2180. There is no wrist pin offset.

Good Luck.


How bad is the slap? Is it noticeably louder until it warms up? After warm up? how streetable would you say they are? Thanks

I have no idea. Yet!
The engine is currently waiting for the better weather driving season.
I have it running on the start stand. Time will tell.

It will likely be installed late March or April.
_________________
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark tucker
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 21040
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
mark tucker is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

slap is a non issue and should be considerd any thing....unless you have tomuch clearance and tight wrist pins . then thats not the pistons pin location fault... I would however look in to v8 piston sets as you can get 8 for the price of 4 many times. manley, dss,diamond ,icon and many others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
UK Luke 72
Samba Member


Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 1544
Location: Little Britain
UK Luke 72 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Tabari (bugguy) can supply 96.5mm pistons and thickwall 94mm cylinders machined to suit.
Also, iirc a really low compression height.

I'm sure he'll be along shortly, he's your man.
_________________
2276 Beetle build https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670744&highlight=2276+beetle+daily
2276 EFI Conversion https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=689172
1835 Camper build https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670745&highlight=1835+camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ivkings4
Samba Member


Joined: February 03, 2018
Posts: 472
Location: California
ivkings4 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Venolia makes them. Not sure the cost, mine were already in the engine.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Type 5 Joe
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1778
Location: Oregon
Type 5 Joe is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

All of the non-wrist pin offset pistons are a bit noisy until they warm up....

That is why they put wrist pin offset in the stock design, to eliminate this.

+ Many of these pistons that were made for other vehicles were designed to be run at water cooled running temperatures...

So the initial cold clearance is a bit more, until they expand.

VW pistons are designed for VW's... The composition of materials, design, etc... Gene Berg made a big deal out of pointing this out when he compared his custom made stuff to others on the market.

BTW, he had his stuff made ie: "Gene Berg Specials" by the OEM suppliers to VW.
_________________
If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...

I don't use the P.M. service on here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rugblaster
Samba Member


Joined: March 31, 2016
Posts: 777
Location: San Angelo, Texas
rugblaster is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Wiseco makes part number K001ESV 94mm with offset pin
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.23 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '10 MB E350, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '14 Ford F150 King Ranch

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Type 5 Joe
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1778
Location: Oregon
Type 5 Joe is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

I looked those up several places on the interweb...

None of the ads I saw said they were machined for wrist pin offset.

Almost every photo showed a water cooled piston with 4 valve reliefs...

Can you post a link to the description / ad you saw?
_________________
If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...

I don't use the P.M. service on here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rugblaster
Samba Member


Joined: March 31, 2016
Posts: 777
Location: San Angelo, Texas
rugblaster is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

That part number is in Wiseco's catalog.......Also has footnote numbers "1" and "2" indicating they have pin offset. They are flat tops and are meant for the end user to machine whatever valve notches they need, if needed.

Those photos you're looking at are just generic photos.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.23 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '10 MB E350, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '14 Ford F150 King Ranch

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Type 5 Joe
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1778
Location: Oregon
Type 5 Joe is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Yes, I figured the pictures were just stock photos...

I looked on Wiseco's site and you can't search by part number... They want you to plug in make, model, etc... Bullshit.

- Unless I'm missing it.
_________________
If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...

I don't use the P.M. service on here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rugblaster
Samba Member


Joined: March 31, 2016
Posts: 777
Location: San Angelo, Texas
rugblaster is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

I'll call them tomorrow......and get the particulars. With the way they make asymmetrical, barrel-shaped skirts on these slipper skirt pistons, it is doubtful they wouldn't have an offset pin.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.23 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '10 MB E350, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '14 Ford F150 King Ranch

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
modok
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 21335
Location: Colorado Springs
modok is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... Reply with quote

Still a good idea for the right application, although they don't seem to be as low priced anymore.

If you have straight cut gears, and a fk-something cam, and a flowmaster two chamber muffler, I don't think you will be bothered by a little piston slap Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB