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dubman67 Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2003 Posts: 273 Location: Big Sky Country
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:25 pm Post subject: Thinking about other piston options... |
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A while back there was a thread about using Toyota 22R (2.4L) 92mm pistons. I cannot find that thread now or remember who was talking in it.
Has anybody tried it?
The compression height is 5.36mm lower than AA 92 pistons which would be damn near ideal for the 84mm 5.5 crank / rod combo I want to build. The pin diameter is the same as VW.
Here is the link to the specs -
https://uempistons.com/i-25276-1-set-ic987-030-1-set-3622dd4-030.html
Summit Racing has them -
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic987ktd-std
My engine is going to be NA, while the specs show these are for turbo applications. Does that really matter?
My thoughts are using AA thick wall 92 Jugs with these pistons for a pretty close to stock width motor. _________________ 67 Bug
62 Double Cab
[url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-54829.png]Click to view image[/URL]
"At 17 got my first Volkswagen...and mastered the life long art of dragin...." Ice Cube |
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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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Looks like it might work... The wrist pins look like they are much shorter.
Looks like they come in .010" .020" .030" over sizes too...
That would be handy if you needed to custom hone a set of thick wall 92's for your engine. _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here. |
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FeelthySanchez Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2011 Posts: 1349 Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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I noted that both the links show "Centered pin" configuration - which means you'd be driving in piston slap city if they were installed into the flat 4.
Re specs for N/A vs. turbo apps, it mostly has to do w/ strength (forged vs. cast), piston-to-cylinder wall clearances & the ring's butt gaps (turbo needs greater for both).
Having owned/rebuilt a 22R, I've pondered it as well, but found that unless one was rolling in un-needed 22R pistons - not practical. _________________
modok wrote: |
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing. |
Ryan Tucker wrote: |
Enough clue..Whats that mean? |
OldIronSpine wrote: |
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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Except mahle / Cima and AAAnal
Who else makes a performance piston with wrist pin offset?
All the racing pistons I have used Wiseco, etc... do not. _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here. |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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Sorry if he doesn't want to get pulled into this thread, but it was Modok who talked about it, iirc.
I've ratted him out because I'm also interested in this. I've been thinking AA hypereutectics with an adjustment of the TW cylinders to piston size, and Toyota rings. |
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dubman67 Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2003 Posts: 273 Location: Big Sky Country
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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FeelthySanchez wrote: |
I noted that both the links show "Centered pin" configuration - which means you'd be driving in piston slap city if they were installed into the flat 4.
Re specs for N/A vs. turbo apps, it mostly has to do w/ strength (forged vs. cast), piston-to-cylinder wall clearances & the ring's butt gaps (turbo needs greater for both).
Having owned/rebuilt a 22R, I've pondered it as well, but found that unless one was rolling in un-needed 22R pistons - not practical. |
Does anybody know if these pistons have the offset?
https://aapistons.com/collections/piston-liner-kit...4mm-case-m
If anything, I'll stick to the old tried and true Cima / Mahle. I don't really trust AA pistons. _________________ 67 Bug
62 Double Cab
[url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-54829.png]Click to view image[/URL]
"At 17 got my first Volkswagen...and mastered the life long art of dragin...." Ice Cube |
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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset. _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here. |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9770 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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Type 5 Joe wrote: |
No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset. |
^^^ This is correct. I have a set in my 2180. There is no wrist pin offset.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
Type 5 Joe wrote: |
No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset. |
^^^ This is correct. I have a set in my 2180. There is no wrist pin offset.
Good Luck. |
How bad is the slap? Is it noticeably louder until it warms up? After warm up? how streetable would you say they are? Thanks |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9770 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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FreeBug wrote: |
67rustavenger wrote: |
Type 5 Joe wrote: |
No, JE is another "racing" piston and does not have wrist pin offset. |
^^^ This is correct. I have a set in my 2180. There is no wrist pin offset.
Good Luck. |
How bad is the slap? Is it noticeably louder until it warms up? After warm up? how streetable would you say they are? Thanks |
I have no idea. Yet!
The engine is currently waiting for the better weather driving season.
I have it running on the start stand. Time will tell.
It will likely be installed late March or April. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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slap is a non issue and should be considerd any thing....unless you have tomuch clearance and tight wrist pins . then thats not the pistons pin location fault... I would however look in to v8 piston sets as you can get 8 for the price of 4 many times. manley, dss,diamond ,icon and many others. |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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King_vw61 Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2018 Posts: 1383 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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Venolia makes them. Not sure the cost, mine were already in the engine.
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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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All of the non-wrist pin offset pistons are a bit noisy until they warm up....
That is why they put wrist pin offset in the stock design, to eliminate this.
+ Many of these pistons that were made for other vehicles were designed to be run at water cooled running temperatures...
So the initial cold clearance is a bit more, until they expand.
VW pistons are designed for VW's... The composition of materials, design, etc... Gene Berg made a big deal out of pointing this out when he compared his custom made stuff to others on the market.
BTW, he had his stuff made ie: "Gene Berg Specials" by the OEM suppliers to VW. _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here. |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1171 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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Wiseco makes part number K001ESV 94mm with offset pin _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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I looked those up several places on the interweb...
None of the ads I saw said they were machined for wrist pin offset.
Almost every photo showed a water cooled piston with 4 valve reliefs...
Can you post a link to the description / ad you saw? _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here. |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1171 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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That part number is in Wiseco's catalog.......Also has footnote numbers "1" and "2" indicating they have pin offset. They are flat tops and are meant for the end user to machine whatever valve notches they need, if needed.
Those photos you're looking at are just generic photos. _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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Yes, I figured the pictures were just stock photos...
I looked on Wiseco's site and you can't search by part number... They want you to plug in make, model, etc... Bullshit.
- Unless I'm missing it. _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here. |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1171 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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I'll call them tomorrow......and get the particulars. With the way they make asymmetrical, barrel-shaped skirts on these slipper skirt pistons, it is doubtful they wouldn't have an offset pin. _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26788 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Thinking about other piston options... |
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Still a good idea for the right application, although they don't seem to be as low priced anymore.
If you have straight cut gears, and a fk-something cam, and a flowmaster two chamber muffler, I don't think you will be bothered by a little piston slap |
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