Engine cam's, ratio rocker arms questions

[TonyB]

I'm wanting to improve the preformance of my stock 1600 engine ... I really don't want to crack open the case yet, I know at some time I'm going to have to, but right now it's got 115 to 120 pounds of compression and from what I've read that's in the optimum zone for as engine life.

Now, to my questions!
Are these 1.25 ratio rocker arms [/img]https://www.jbugs.com/product/21-2312.html[/url] I'm seeing ... Are they an alternative to putting in a cam?

If not, what is the parallel to engine preformance?

Also, what's the biggest piston & cylinder kit I can install without doing any machining?

Lastly, I've been told CIP1 isn't reputable (after buying a distributor & dual carb setup from them) ... who is a good vendor?
This is really troubling ... In the firearms community, bad companies don't last long because people get the word out about them.

[FeelthySanchez]

Perhaps start by reading here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=387513
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[TonyB]

[VW_Jimbo]

The stock 1600 engine is a great air pump. Really efficient at moving air through the systems. However, there are three large blockage points along the route, which greatly diminish the air flow.

The valve size. They are so damn small. Moving up to 40mm intakes and 35.5mm exhaust is an amazing improvement. But with this comes the requirements for better intake charge control and removing burned combustion gases. So, with new heads, you will need a way better exhaust (actually, all stock exhaust setups should be upgraded, very limiting), way better fuel management (shortening the intake manifold and increasing the number of barrels). So, dual one barrel carbs (Kadrons) are an awesome upgrade. Especially when coupled to better heads and exhaust.


Next up, I would opt for a better ignition system. The stock one works, but there are so many better ones available out in the marketplace.


Beyond those modest improvements, you are into changing mechanical items. At that point there is a relationship which needs to be adhered to, to gain good, long lasting results. Adding just one item (ratio rockers) would never be something I would do, to an engine, without rebuilding it. All engines, after a while obtains a groove, in how they run. When you change its groove, sometimes it fights back. I have seen entire engines self destruct after changing the simplest things, like rockers. I have seen several engines go through this path (racers would come into the shop and build up a "kapow" engine, one which was at its last little bit). They would add all kinds of oddities to these and go "test run" the poor engine. They learned a lot, but more often it was just for the fun of watching shit blow up!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[TonyB]

VW Jimbo, thanks for the comments, I've started with Carbs, exhaust and ignition ... Bought but not installed yet, I'm still waiting in the exhaust but I'm thinking about pulling the engine, maybe installing the Dist/coil/new plugs & wires and putting it in the Baja, then installing the carbs when the exhaust gets here in another week or two.

1.5" headers with dual mufflers

This distributor along with a Bosch blue coil and new plugs & wires

I've seen a 1690cc piston and jug kit IIRC (do they still call them that?) that doesn't require case/head machining and kind of thought that would be my next step (I don't know of a machine shop around here with the experiance required) ... Maybe along with some new heads (which it sounds like you are a real believer). I'd like to do something with the interior and paint but haven't come up with a theme yet, so it's not a huge deal.
This is going to be a daily driver, not a hot rod ... I got most of that out of my system back in the 70's in a Datsun 240Z with a Weber 6-pack/headers but I still like to look good!

[Danwvw]

88mm bore piston and cylinders will get you 1679cc's. You can run the 88mm thickwall P&C kit and just order new heads cut for 92mm P&C's
The P&C kit comes with really thin bottom of the cylinder that will fit a stock case but the walls are extra thick and fit a 92mm bore at the head. When you split the case you can buy a 74mm crank that will drop right in with the right rods! Making your engine 1800cc's.
The 1.25:1 elcheapo Rockers are ok but you will need to replace the Pushrod tubes with wider ones or the pushrods hit the tubes. I like the Scat 1.25 Ratio Rockers but CB-Performance ones are probably ok too. I would put the IDF 40 Dual Carbs on as soon as your header arrives, they will make the most power of the modifications your planing. The 1.25 Ratio rockers are nice to have too.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[vwracerdave]

I personally feel that adding ratio rockers to a stock 1600 is not worth the cost of the new parts for a 1-2 HP gain. The only thing I would do to a stock 1600 is add dual carbs and a cheap header exhaust. If you want more then tear it apart and rebuild bigger.


Read and read and read some more. http://www.aircooled.net/vw-technical-articles/
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos

[Danwvw]

A Couple of problems with the 1.25 Ratio rockers! The ones that cost the least are actually better in some applications! The more expensive don't let you run adjusters and are a little hard to set the valves with as they have the adjuster on the pushrod end of the rocker. But the more expensive ones are better as far as the valve geometry goes. You may even get away with running them with stock pushrod tubes. I would also get the full kit either way make it a solid rocker shaft setup. I put elchepo scat 1.25 on my bus when It was a stock 1585cc and with just the header and a stock PICT 34/3 carburetor it would go about 6 MPH faster than it did on the highway. Helped a lot if heading into a wind. The Stock Dual Port throttle response is improved for sure.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[TonyB]

Well, this thread has sat for a while ... as has my Baja.

I did do the above mentioned carb, exhaust and distributor upgrades. I'd driven it a couple hundred miles, then along in late June or early July(2019) , it started sounding very un-healthy (pretty bad really) but it didn't lock up or anything like that.

I drained the oil and found several fairly good size bits of aluminum. I finally got around to pulling it apart a couple months ago and found the #3 piston skirt was half gone ... hence the chunks of aluminum.
- -
I'd already bought the slip-in 88 pistons and cylinders, new FOMOCO heads with larger valves, a full flow CB oil pump & filter system, but didn't get around to putting them in ... so a total rebuild is in my immediate future.

Now I'm all set to split the case, buy and drop in the 74mm crank, and lightened flywheel ... I also want a new cam ... I'm not wanting to pull wheelies but I do want a bit more power, was thinking an Engle 110.

I think (from what I've read) this is a solid plan .... but if not, advise would be appreciated!

Keep in mind, I'm not a bank and all I want a reliable daily driver.

QUESTIONS ...
Will the stock connecting rods work or do I need new H-Beam connecting rods?

Also, are the stock rockers okay or do I need to upgrade them as well?
If so, to what?

I'm mostly going to be driving on the street, but mild off-roading is not out of the question. In my spare time, I also like to do, what I consider long range target shooting, 800-1200 yards ... so driving across farm fields and streams.

Lastly, just a couple finishing questions (maybe).

Once I have this all together, will it need to be balanced?

If so, how do I do that ... or who does that?

Not relevant to this rebuild, I bought a spare engine to use while I'm doing this rebuild and I do plan on going through it when above is finished. It'll be a "winter engine" with heater boxes and carbs with electric choke ... its also a 1600DP. The carb was shot and heater boxes had been cut off, so I put a pair of Solex's and new header/mufflers on it along with a Bosch coi and the above electric ignition distributor. Although its winter in Kansas, its been mild enough I can drive it a bit ... in the past, its been my experience that even with heater boxes it doesn't get all that warm!

The only problem I can see with having a spare engine sitting around is, I'd kind of like a street bug at some point, front end narrowed, lowered, wider rear fenders ... 4-wheel disc. Kinda a slow sleeper.

[daveswoodcraft]

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There are not such thing as a stupid question, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots!