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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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Amskeptic wrote: |
TomWesty wrote: |
Whatever you do, don’t be tricked into using that miserable “vintage look” braided crap. |
But what about the real Choline imprinted braided 5mm fuel hose? I have been using the German braided fuel hose with no ill effects with 10% ethanol fuel.
Colin
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This year I've noted four different braided fuel line makers. Most of them seem to crack in the first few years… Only the Volkswagen/Audi stamped line for me; replaced every four or five years. The cut picture below is the end of a piece that has 40k miles on it.
Robbie
_________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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You may use whatever you want. I’ll let you experience it for yourself. I live next to a corn state. God knows what level of ethanol we get. That braid makes a good wick so you never see drips, it just evaporates. None for me thanks and I will continue to tell new people not to use it. They can ignore me. NASA ignored cold O rings. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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I do have a dirty little secret about my fuel lines…
Ethanol can't eat your rubber if you don't let the car sit…
Robbie31,000milesLastYear _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13385 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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I also remember a few years back many vendors were selling a poor quality braided fuel hose. I must of dodged a bullet. I never ran into that fuel hose. I still run the standard braided fuel hose and have for decades w/out incident. I left this hose on one of my bugs for 5 years while checking it for hardening up or any other exterior deterioration.
When I replaced the hose after 5 years, I also cut it in half to see if the hose showed any signs of damage or obvious deterioration of the rubber internally. The hose looked new inside.
What I have seen is the braided fuel line will harden as it gets old. If you try and bend it into U, old, dried up hose will crack, snapple and pop as you try to bend it.
My 70' bus had an ancient braided fuel line from the tank to the firewall of the engine. It was wet and it had a drip or two on it. I removed this old hose and replaced it with new. I bet the old hose was at least 20 years old. It also snapped when I tried to bend it into a U.
Personally, I don't care what fuel line people use. They need to inspect the hose at a minimum of annually. I look over the fuel hoses, fuel pump and carb at every fill up. I typically change the fuel hose every 3 years as well.
I also like the look of the German braided fuel hose in my engine compartments. The other modern hose just doesn't look right on a really stock engine. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**
Last edited by wcfvw69 on Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AhnwS71 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2018 Posts: 215 Location: Huntsville, AL
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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so 5.5mm from tank to fuel filter, 5.5 from fuel filter to metal line through fire wall, 5.5 from metal fuel line to fuel pump in, 5.5 from fuel pump out to carb?
Just want to be sure. Thank you all for your help. _________________ '71 Westy
Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you. the Stranger |
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AhnwS71 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2018 Posts: 215 Location: Huntsville, AL
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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Wildthings wrote: |
Your aftermarket crankcase ventilation system is very likely to cause you grief. The hose and fittings are way smaller than the stock setup plus the stock setup had a weighted flap in the air cleaner snorkel to augment the flow. You hose is also bend into an S trap which will cause the hose to fill and clog with engine snot. I wouldn't drive my engine around the block with your setup, too much risk of blowing all the oil out of the crankcase.
Chrome won't get you home and neither will polished aluminium. |
After being told by multiple people to get an oil bath air cleaner, i have one on the way. The hose coming off of the oil filler is larger than the fuel lines even though it may not appear so in the images.
Are you suggesting getting an even bigger one to connect to the new air cleaner? what gauge hose do you suggest?
Also I noticed a lot of Oil filler tubes have a hose going to the air cleaner and one going down out of the engine compartment.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1862842.jpg
notice on my filler, there is no connection for 2 hoses.
Do i need both or will just one going to the air cleaner be fine?
The engine is one that the PO purchased to put int the bus. It is a refurbished engine from West Coast Core. I am a complete novice to this as this is my first vehicle ever to learn about. I appreciate all of the help from the people here and all of this but you all started somewhere. Is there something wrong with the chrome? _________________ '71 Westy
Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you. the Stranger |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16803 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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i would ditch that filler and go OE. I would also ditch all that chrome tin and go OE as well _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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AhnwS71 wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
Your aftermarket crankcase ventilation system is very likely to cause you grief. The hose and fittings are way smaller than the stock setup plus the stock setup had a weighted flap in the air cleaner snorkel to augment the flow. You hose is also bend into an S trap which will cause the hose to fill and clog with engine snot. I wouldn't drive my engine around the block with your setup, too much risk of blowing all the oil out of the crankcase.
Chrome won't get you home and neither will polished aluminium. |
After being told by multiple people to get an oil bath air cleaner, i have one on the way. The hose coming off of the oil filler is larger than the fuel lines even though it may not appear so in the images.
Are you suggesting getting an even bigger one to connect to the new air cleaner? what gauge hose do you suggest?
Also I noticed a lot of Oil filler tubes have a hose going to the air cleaner and one going down out of the engine compartment.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1862842.jpg
notice on my filler, there is no connection for 2 hoses.
Do i need both or will just one going to the air cleaner be fine?
The engine is one that the PO purchased to put int the bus. It is a refurbished engine from West Coast Core. I am a complete novice to this as this is my first vehicle ever to learn about. I appreciate all of the help from the people here and all of this but you all started somewhere. Is there something wrong with the chrome? |
The original hose is something like 12mm or ~ 1/2" ID and the fittings are very thin wall so the cross sectional area is quite large compared to what you have. Yes there was also a draft tube that discharged under the engine if not all the blowby was being sucked into the air cleaner.
Your oil filler is aftermarket crap, find the original piece for your year and swap that for what you have. There is a kind of check valve that fits on the bottom of the draft tube.
An engine that can not expel all of its blowby may well blow all of the oil out of the crankcase and blow up from lack of lube. |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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Here is a visual of the parts yours should have when you’ve got everything. Like most other parts of your bus, every part works in a system, relying on every other part to participating correctly.
(Can’t see the road draft boot..)
Here is all the stuff you’ll need, in addition to your oil bath air cleaner. (Does your engine compartment still have the mount for it??)
- Stock breather tower/oil filler. Used is great, just REALLY clean out as much as you can. (No sandblasting allowed, for my fellow powder coating enthusiasts...)
- 1” ID Pipe Wrench to get the special oil filler nut off/on. (A GOOD plumbing store will have this locally)
- Oil filler gasket
- Oil filler cap. Used or new, just make sure the gasket is good. The “ears” on the underside of new caps MUST be stress tested prior to installation, the parts are sometimes so poorly made that the ears brake off and you get to take your engine apart to get the shards out
- sealant of some kind. Commonly available are Permatex Aviation, Dirko, Curil, or Shellac (brown bottle)
- Road draft boot (Make sure the end is slotted)
- crankcase breather hose, approx. 13mm, but I’ve used 1/2” heater hose from an auto parts store in a pinch. Not sure how long it would last...
- crossover intake tube, from air cleaner to carb. Part number 211-129-615E. Google that to see it
- hose clamps for the intake crossover tube
- .4 quarts of oil. Used is fine, something close to 30w, don’t overthink it
- Road draft tube grommet, PN 111-115-491 - Added 1/27
It sounds like a lot, but I promise it’s not. You might even lose 1hp, but gain much smoother driving during warm ups and cold weather. Nice joice going back to oil bath.
See you on the road!
Robbie
EDIT: 1/27 added road draft tube grommet _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com
Last edited by airschooled on Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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AhnwS71 wrote: |
so 5.5mm from tank to fuel filter, 5.5 from fuel filter to metal line through fire wall, 5.5 from metal fuel line to fuel pump in, 5.5 from fuel pump out to carb?
Just want to be sure. Thank you all for your help. |
And yes, that seems to be what everybody here runs on a stock early bay. The VW line I've been using for years was sold to me as 5.5mm, but 70crew pointed out to me that it actually says 5.0mm on the hose itself. It fits perfectly; enough interference to stay with no clamps, but not so snug that you struggle to install it. (Spit on the fittings helps.)
Good luck,
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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asiab3 wrote: |
AhnwS71 wrote: |
so 5.5mm from tank to fuel filter, 5.5 from fuel filter to metal line through fire wall, 5.5 from metal fuel line to fuel pump in, 5.5 from fuel pump out to carb?
Just want to be sure. Thank you all for your help. |
And yes, that seems to be what everybody here runs on a stock early bay. The VW line I've been using for years was sold to me as 5.5mm, but 70crew pointed out to me that it actually says 5.0mm on the hose itself. It fits perfectly; enough interference to stay with no clamps, but not so snug that you struggle to install it. (Spit on the fittings helps.)
Good luck,
Robbie |
I have said this before, that VW typically sizes their lines to match the INSIDE of their fittings, not the outside. This gives a good tight fit and the fittings and hose have similar flow characteristics. |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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Wildthings wrote: |
I have said this before, that VW typically sizes their lines to match the INSIDE of their fittings, not the outside. This gives a good tight fit and the fittings and hose have similar flow characteristics. |
Interesting! Did not know that, thanks! _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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AhnwS71 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2018 Posts: 215 Location: Huntsville, AL
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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asiab3 wrote: |
Here is a visual of the parts yours should have when you’ve got everything. Like most other parts of your bus, every part works in a system, relying on every other part to participating correctly.
(Can’t see the road draft boot..)
Here is all the stuff you’ll need, in addition to your oil bath air cleaner. (Does your engine compartment still have the mount for it??)
- Stock breather tower/oil filler. Used is great, just REALLY clean out as much as you can. (No sandblasting allowed, for my fellow powder coating enthusiasts...)
- 1” ID Pipe Wrench to get the special oil filler nut off/on. (A GOOD plumbing store will have this locally)
- Oil filler gasket
- Oil filler cap. Used or new, just make sure the gasket is good. The “ears” on the underside of new caps MUST be stress tested prior to installation, the parts are sometimes so poorly made that the ears brake off and you get to take your engine apart to get the shards out
- sealant of some kind. Commonly available are Permatex Aviation, Dirko, Curil, or Shellac (brown bottle)
- Road draft boot (Make sure the end is slotted)
- crankcase breather hose, approx. 13mm, but I’ve used 1/2” heater hose from an auto parts store in a pinch. Not sure how long it would last...
- crossover intake tube, from air cleaner to carb. Part number 211-129-615E. Google that to see it
- hose clamps for the intake crossover tube
- .4 quarts of oil. Used is fine, something close to 30w, don’t overthink it
- Road draft tube grommet, PN 111-115-491 - Added 1/27
It sounds like a lot, but I promise it’s not. You might even lose 1hp, but gain much smoother driving during warm ups and cold weather. Nice joice going back to oil bath.
See you on the road!
Robbie
EDIT: 1/27 added road draft tube grommet |
Thank you I Got all that except:
The bus does not have a mount, any reasonable source for those?
where is the sealant applied? _________________ '71 Westy
Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you. the Stranger
Last edited by AhnwS71 on Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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AhnwS71 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2018 Posts: 215 Location: Huntsville, AL
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i would ditch that filler and go OE. I would also ditch all that chrome tin and go OE as well |
Working on the stock filler. Is there something mechanically wrong with the chrome or is a personal visual preference? If i leave it, will it lead to some kind of a failure later? _________________ '71 Westy
Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you. the Stranger |
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klcarrie Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2012 Posts: 288 Location: 'berta!
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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1) Chrome upright tin likely does not support adequate cooling air-flow for a 1600 bus engine. they need all the cooling they can. The internal-veined design of the stock setup directed air flow specifically. Your chrome upright tin is likely void of cooling veins. _________________ Pritchin'
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Currently looking for:
- Bay Bus Pinion Nut Socket
- 64-67 big nut (rear) drums and brake parts, 46mm axle nuts (Big Nuts)
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'55 Wolfburg Pannel Project
'55 Wolfsburg SC Project
'71 Westy |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: '71 fuel line replacement |
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Chrome seems to be manufactured and sold specifically for people who don't care about function or at least don't understand its importance, seems stupid, but that is the way it has been for a long time. |
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