Best ball joints? troubles with new Lemforders

[a57oval]

Hello all,
72 Bay. A few years ago I had Lemforder ball joints pressed in. I have driven them about 8800 miles. Right after installation I noticed the steering was sticking and not returning to center very well. The hotter the ambient temperature, the worse they get. Also with the wheels in the air, it is very hard to turn the wheels by hand (at the wheel). I removed both tie rod ends to verify the stiffness is not related to the steering box, tie rods, drag, link ,or center pin.
At about 3300 miles I read that putting in grease fittings would help loosen things up.So I did that. Now I have about 8800 miles on them and they are no better.
In doing a bunch of searching here on the Samba and on Colin's website, I am forming the conclusion that Nakata's may have been a better choice.
Is that right?
Anyone have a similar experience?
Anyone have a suggestion on which ball joint to use?
Thanks to everyone who can help,
Peter

[SGKent]

from what I understand it is hit and miss. Make sure they are reasonably free before installing them. Colin calls what you are feeling the dead feel. It also makes the bus worse in wind.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[a57oval]

Yeah no kidding on the dead feel. Makes for a fun time in the wind.
Hit and miss? On a suspension piece?! Yikes,

Peter

[SGKent]

did you read this article? https://www.wagenswest.com/how_to/bus_vanagon_ball_comparison.php
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[a57oval]

I hadn't read that. Thanks for the link. Unfortunately that web page doesn't help. It suggests Lemforder, which is what I have.
Peter

[Zed999]

I had the same problem with Meyle HD. After a few thousand miles I replaced with the cheapest I could find. Swapping BJs is not a fun job. The supplier will always blame your fitting technique and even if they replaced or refunded it would be poor compensation.

And I was going to try Lemforders this year when I tidy up my front suspension.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

I went thru this last season on dumpy bus (conversion client) thing is, they were mint for about 15,000 then out of the blue tightened up

went thru the same deal, drop tie rods etc....whole front end was "new" 15k ago. I did find a steering dampener (sachs) to be stupid fucking stiff. swapped that out...better (much better) but still not right.

after speaking with the owners we decided as a last ditch to drill and tap for a grease fitting. I hate doing shit like that. I used a LH drill bit to try my best not to get swarf in the joint.

after putting 10-15 miles on it, it became MUCH better. like a wet fart...I still don't trust it.

these were nakata's. what is odd is how they went 15k before getting tight. right out of the box they were fine.

luck of the draw I guess I have all the factory tooling to do these and I can't even make a solid recommendation what to use. this is one of the few cases I let the client decide, because there is no good ones left it seems.

if you can move them like a shifter out of the box with little effort then that is the best you can do...same after they are pressed in.

sucks.....
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[a57oval]

Awesome post Skills, Very informative. Thanks for the info. What is with all of these shit parts? I don't mind spending money. I hate spending it twice. Now I don't know what to do.
I too took great care in drilling the ball joints for grease fittings. Greased up drill and tap, vacuum, chant, prey, etc. Lifted the Bus up and greased them, put it down and greased them. Didn't seem to make much of a difference.
Anyone else have input?
Peter

[skills@eurocarsplus]

worse part is it isn't a very easy job to do. it's not like a shitty sun visor you can swap out in 2 mins...

I really don't have an answer. we are monitoring dumpy bus for the time being.

for shit and giggles I use some trashy Mexican ball joints on my deluxe. I forget what they were call...something absurd like bo-bo's

so far, so good...
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[deezal]

I've used these, Delphi TC134 after having the same problems with the lemforders. The delphis have been good for a year now (5000 miles). I agree the lemforders are hit or miss.

Good Luck.

[a57oval]

Another data point. Thank you Deezal.
Peter

[SGKent]

I restored the 1977 in 2008-2009. The problem existed then and it does now too. Don't know what to say. In 1981 I had some ball joints replaced on my 1971 at about 350,000 miles using factory ball joints, and the bus drove perfectly afterwards. Some funky tire wear went away too, even though the old ball joints were still within the wear spec. The tire wear was not alignment. All that said, I wish all I had done on this bus was replace the ball joint boots and saved the original ball joints. Mike NorCal gave me a set off a 1978 that I traded for these, which are Nakata sold by Wolfgang and the set I turned in that Mike gave me also probably needed boots only. I would encourage anyone considering new ball joints to actually measure their wear first.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[richparker]

I’m using Nakata ball joints and tie rods (with ends), they have both been great!

Good luck!
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[a57oval]

Richparker,
Good news. how many miles? boots look good?
Thanks for the tip on tie rods/ends. I bought some Euromax brand ( color me stupid)tie rod ends / tierod and within 3 months the boots had cracked. I ended up getting used VW with no slop. Original boots.
Peter

[TomWesty]

[richparker]

[a57oval]

Thanks Richparker.
Peter

[Amskeptic]

[a57oval]

Hi Colin,
Thank you very much for your input.
Yes these were Lemforders of Germany and they have about 8800 miles on them. The boots are in great condition.
Interesting idea on the burnishing technique.
The question is what do I do?
Use the Lemforders for more time and hope they loosen up?
Buy Nakatas and take my chances?
I have not been able to find NOS VW's so that is off the table.
Confused and irritated that we cant get quality parts,
Peter

[SGKent]

drive them is what I would do unless you find new VW OG ones which the last I saw was about 10 years ago , other than a set of oversize I sold to I think Tom.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin