| Author |
Message |
flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
|
 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:13 pm Post subject: Bench start help needed |
 |
|
hey guys im still kinda learning the site so my bad if repair questions belong somewhere else. also new to the car scene in general so excuse my ignorance
so ive been working on getting my 65 back to driving condition after being abandoned since 1979-80 and ive finally gotten the engine reassembled with new seals,new electrical,cleaned carb,fresh oil,honed cylinders/new rings,rebuilt almost anything i would imagine to cause troubles. well i got it together put gas in it and got it to start but im struggling to keep it running/idling, it only fires when im giving it gas. all i could think to do was to play with the idle mixture screw hoping that id find some kind of sweet spot where i could take my hand off the throttle but that didnt work for me. so ive kinda hit a wall, i dont know what else to look at any help would be really appreciated |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: bench start help needed |
|
|
what carb do you have? idle fuel is the responsibility of the idle jet
_________________
regards
Uli
----------------------------------------
'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: bench start help needed |
|
|
| mandraks wrote: |
| what carb do you have? idle fuel is the responsibility of the idle jet |
ive got a 28 pict-2 where should i look for the idle jet? what adjustments? it also looks wet inside the carb so would that mean its got excess gas? and when im giving it gas smoke comes out the oil filler tube thing and idk if thats just cause its cold or if it means its burning oil or if something is horribly wrong |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:38 am Post subject: Re: bench start help needed |
|
|
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| mandraks wrote: |
| what carb do you have? idle fuel is the responsibility of the idle jet |
ive got a 28 pict-2 where should i look for the idle jet? |
Check the thing called the pilot jet and it's on the side by the accelerator pump housing right above it. It uses an 8mm tool to remove it. Inside the end of it is a tiny hole that gets plugged up. You can poke it clean with a strand of wire. Look at it with a magnifier. It may not be what's wrong but at least check that off the list.
Your idle screw you messed with should be out 2 1/4 turns to begin with.
| Quote: |
| smoke comes out the oil filler tube thing and idk if thats just cause its cold or if it means its burning oil or if something is horribly wrong |
The smoke might just be from not being broken in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
i pulled out an idle shut off from the space you mentioned (idk if this was added later or if they came with these in 1965) and shot some compressed air through it. i also put some power to it and heard a click so im assuming it works ok. i did notice that the threads were a little wonky though would that effect anything?it still tightens no problem and doesn't feel like its slipping threads. i also adjusted that first screw i was tinkering with to the suggested 2 1/4 turns thank you for the advice
this is where it was on the carb |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13271
Location: Tejas!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
| Erik G wrote: |
well there is your problem. Both need to be attached to the keyed power from your coil. Once done, I bet it idles  |
well its hard to tell in the photo but that bottom wire with the newer connector actually has 2 wires coming out of it and it lead to the connection on the coil numbered 15 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
OK I didn't know you had the electric kind. It still must have the end little hole clear. Wonky is ok as long as it lets fuel enter. Do you have another carb to steal the not-electric type just to eliminate that as a problem?
Also does the choke ceramic thing heat up and make the butterfly open up inside? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cru62
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002
Posts: 4117
Location: Margaritaville.....24/7
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
Check out the threads on that idle solenoid. That got bent and then “straightened” out. I’ll bet the shaft to the plug is seized.
_________________
"My biggest worry is that when I die, my wife will sell all my parts for what I told her I paid for them"-Jon
Jokes about German sausage are the wurst.
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
j.pickens
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002
Posts: 9789
Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
| cru62 wrote: |
| Check out the threads on that idle solenoid. That got bent and then “straightened” out. I’ll bet the shaft to the plug is seized. |
Or, take the idle jet apart and cut 1cm off the solenoid pin to keep it from closing.
If that makes it idle, then you can just run it that way. If later, the engine diesels, or doesn't shut off when you kill the ignition, you can get another idle solenoid. A quick and dirty way to see if that's your problem.
_________________
Founder and Chairman Emeritus, ECMSAS
BBX BBXII and BBXXI Long Distance Award Winner
| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
| Red Fau Veh wrote: |
If you've seen one sunroof swivel seat kombi, you've seen them all!  |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
| BarryL wrote: |
OK I didn't know you had the electric kind. It still must have the end little hole clear. Wonky is ok as long as it lets fuel enter. Do you have another carb to steal the not-electric type just to eliminate that as a problem?
Also does the choke ceramic thing heat up and make the butterfly open up inside? |
i dont have another carb to rob it off of.
this is showing me that its clear
i have felt heat from the ceramic thing after i had given it gas for a bit i didnt notice whether or not the butterfly was opening though. also im not sure if its adjusted right, i know it has to do with these markings
i dont think the stopper is seized cause i hear it clicking when the brass piece and solenoid are connected then when they're not connected and i press the stopper slightly while hooked to power i can feel it spring back. like some kind of electro-magnet
i was also thinking if i could get some kind of fitting to put on the end of the brass part so i could remove the solenoid from the situation im hesitant to cut the stopper/shaft |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| i have felt heat from the ceramic thing after i had given it gas for a bit i didnt notice whether or not the butterfly was opening though. also im not sure if its adjusted right, i know it has to do with these markings. |
Marks look correct enough. But if the inside hook of the choke heater didn't catch the butterfly it won't unwind. Easiest way is turn the key on and watch into the top of the carb but hold the throttle off the ratchet part. Also pull the wire off to the distributor at the coil while you do this test.
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| this is showing me that its clear |
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| i dont think the stopper is seized cause i hear it clicking when the brass piece and solenoid are connected then when they're not connected and i press the stopper slightly while hooked to power i can feel it spring back. like some kind of electro-magnet. |
All that seems ok. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cru62
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002
Posts: 4117
Location: Margaritaville.....24/7
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
The purpose of the solenoid is to shut off the idle circuit when the ignition is turned off. It holds the plunger off of the idle jet when it is energized and blocks it when it is not energized. The only way to be absolutely certain is to energize the solenoid and actually see if the plunger is unrestricted and moving. If the plunger is not moving completely off the seat the engine will not idle well or even at all. The one you have is bent. I wouldn’t trust it.
_________________
"My biggest worry is that when I die, my wife will sell all my parts for what I told her I paid for them"-Jon
Jokes about German sausage are the wurst.
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
j.pickens
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002
Posts: 9789
Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
Just cut off the pointy pin, reinstall, and see what happens. You can get new solenoids for $13 new from any auto parts supplier. And you probably don't even need it.
_________________
Founder and Chairman Emeritus, ECMSAS
BBX BBXII and BBXXI Long Distance Award Winner
| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
| Red Fau Veh wrote: |
| If you've seen one sunroof swivel seat kombi, you've seen them all! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
| BarryL wrote: |
Marks look correct enough. But if the inside hook of the choke heater didn't catch the butterfly it won't unwind. Easiest way is turn the key on and watch into the top of the carb but hold the throttle off the ratchet part. Also pull the wire off to the distributor at the coil while you do this test. |
i did what you said and took a timelapse video and saw it opening up. also i talked to someone today about buying a new solenoid off them.anything else i should check before then? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14259
Location: Casa de Oro, California
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| anything else i should check before then? |
Describe your startup and trying-to-run procedure i.e. I crank it and it starts right away, I have to keep pumping the lever or it dies, but it will run fast without dying etc...as an example. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flemcadiddlehopper
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011
Posts: 2332
Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
With the solenoid and jet out you should be able to give it power and ground to watch it activate. Then once activated blow through the jet. If it flows you're golden; not the problem.
Try to keep the engine running with some carb cleaner spray, at least then you verify it's the carb and not a spark/ timing problem.
Gordo.
_________________
Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
| BarryL wrote: |
| flendershirebu wrote: |
| anything else i should check before then? |
Describe your startup and trying-to-run procedure i.e. I crank it and it starts right away, I have to keep pumping the lever or it dies, but it will run fast without dying etc...as an example. |
so when i sit down with it to try to start it i crank it a bit then attach power to the coil that should send power to the ceramic choke and solenoid(and i hear the click when i attach power) then i activate the push button starter and while its cranking it wont run unless i pump the lever(maybe 3 or 4 times) then i have to keep pumping the lever/revving the engine for it to keep going if i take my hands off it it dies immediately
oh also yeah i had the pump pretty far down and it didn't die. it seems like it just wont start,stay running by itself and if its running to slowly it'll cut off
Last edited by flendershirebu on Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flendershirebu
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018
Posts: 183
Location: VA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
| flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
With the solenoid and jet out you should be able to give it power and ground to watch it activate. Then once activated blow through the jet. If it flows you're golden; not the problem.
Try to keep the engine running with some carb cleaner spray, at least then you verify it's the carb and not a spark/ timing problem.
Gordo. |
ive had the solenoid out and have connected it to power ive heard it click but its so small its hard to tell if i can actually see it moving. ill take it out and try blowing air through it while connected to power like you said. i wouldn't think its a timing/spark problem because i put new points, rotor, cap, wires, and plugs on it and there is the possibility my timing job isn't perfect cause this would be the first time ive timed a car but i used the "static timing method" where you connect a test light and rotate the distributor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flemcadiddlehopper
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011
Posts: 2332
Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Bench start help needed |
|
|
If you can keep it running with the throttle opened up, then it is most likely related to the idle circuit only.
If you think there is a chance of a piece of debris that has it plugged, you could rev the engine up (wide open throttle) and then cap the top of the carb with a clean rag in your hand. Then just before the engine dies remove it. Do this a few times and see if the engine vacuum has cleared the debris. (famous backyard tune-up trick)
Gordo.
_________________
Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
