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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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 Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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| TomWesty wrote: |
| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
| What’s the reason for not buying the correct panels, and maintaining body seams? |
I’m not seeing any seams in the original pictures. |
Huh? The vertical seams should all run down the the bottom of the rocker. There is also a missing horizontal seam separating the “under third window” rocker, and the big wall panel. Looks like a split long side rocker was used and laid over all of those seams
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:31 am Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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This is what it should look like:
This is unfortunate:
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
This is unfortunate |
X2...but whatever. not too late to do it right. if/when you sell it will be a huge red flag to those who know
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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To my understanding Gerson (Klassicfab) is the only one that makes metal specifically for Bay Window Double Cabs.
I ordered the best part I could find. Before cutting the rocker, the 12” panel DID NOT have the noted seam.
My weld along the window panel is actually running along the same horizontal seam that is noticed in the factory.
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The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
To my understanding Gerson (Klassicfab) is the only one that makes metal specifically for Bay Window Double Cabs.
I ordered the best part I could find. Before cutting the rocker, the 12” panel DID NOT have the noted seam.
My weld along the window panel is actually running along the same horizontal seam that is noticed in the factory. |
Autocraft makes pretty much the same rocker/ pillar wise.
I'm not sure what you're referring to as the 12" panel, but the photo I posted is of original rockers in a '68 double cab. As seen here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2231380
You cannot argue with this, this is factual information of how the body seams should be. The body seams are not just there for aesthetics in the middle of one big panel, those are the edges of all individual pieces.
As far as I know, nobody is making the correct bottom most rocker under the window panel. But hey, if you buy a "third door" rocker from KF, and cut the top flange off of the seal channel, it's the exact same thing. The top of it is spot welded to the bottom flange of the window panel.
Not trying to argue with you, just hoping you'll go through the effort of making it correct. These are not $500 throw away vehicles anymore.
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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I’m not arguing with anyone. My original rocker section I cut out did in fact have this factory seam. My question, if none of the suppliers are making this section with the same seam, am I too fabricate my own metal? Though this is certainly an option, it’s beyond my skill set. I’m glad I’m able to replace what I can.
I can’t lie and say getting dogged about the lack of the seam doesn’t bother me, because it does. It did before I cut the rust out and cut the new metal to weld in. I knew it should be there for correctness, what’s a guy to do?
Here is Klassicfab’s link for Double Cab Metal.
https://www.klassicfab.com/product-category/bay-wi...ow-rocker/
Nothing with seams. I didn’t intentionally half ass it, or I wouldn’t have paid Gerson for metal. My guess is the lack of demand for them to make a proper panel, as Bay Doka’s have a relatively low production number.
If you have a steady hand and a Dremel, you’re more than welcome to replicate the seam. I’ve thought of it, but haven’t decided if it’s worth of creating more work or not.
Doing the best I can folks. And I don’t have a clue what I’m doing. A day at a time.
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The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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man its definitely within your skill set to cut the section where the seam is supposed to be and make the correct patch for it.youre all over that! they sell those sheet metal seamers for pretty cheap, always a good thing to have around the shop too! it sucks that the panel isnt what its supposed to be, i have a similar issue with finding body panels for my t3 Doka, especially around the treasure chests and rear fenders...
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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| outcaststudios wrote: |
| man its definitely within your skill set to cut the section where the seam is supposed to be and make the correct patch for it.youre all over that! they sell those sheet metal seamers for pretty cheap, always a good thing to have around the shop too! it sucks that the panel isnt what its supposed to be, i have a similar issue with finding body panels for my t3 Doka, especially around the treasure chests and rear fenders... |
The seam isn’t necessarily a fold but rather that, a simply seam. Behind this seam is the horizontal plan of the interior corrugated metal for the floor/cargo area. I could as mentioned, replicate the seam with the panel currently welded in, but at this time am not cutting that metal back out.
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The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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outcaststudios
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| outcaststudios wrote: |
| man its definitely within your skill set to cut the section where the seam is supposed to be and make the correct patch for it.youre all over that! they sell those sheet metal seamers for pretty cheap, always a good thing to have around the shop too! it sucks that the panel isnt what its supposed to be, i have a similar issue with finding body panels for my t3 Doka, especially around the treasure chests and rear fenders... |
The seam isn’t necessarily a fold but rather that, a simply seam. Behind this seam is the horizontal plan of the interior corrugated metal for the floor/cargo area. I could as mentioned, replicate the seam with the panel currently welded in, but at this time am not cutting that metal back out. |
hey man i dont blame you,i wouldnt cut it back out, its not really a big deal. as you said, if its that important the next owner can deal with it. i just like to find excuses to hoarde more tools. 
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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Ok, not sure why i'm wasting my time with this, but hopefully someone can benefit from this in the future. Here we go..
| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
My original rocker section I cut out did in fact have this factory seam. My question, if none of the suppliers are making this section with the same seam, am I too fabricate my own metal? Though this is certainly an option, it’s beyond my skill set. I’m glad I’m able to replace what I can.
I can’t lie and say getting dogged about the lack of the seam doesn’t bother me, because it does. It did before I cut the rust out and cut the new metal to weld in. I knew it should be there for correctness, what’s a guy to do?
Here is Klassicfab’s link for Double Cab Metal.
https://www.klassicfab.com/product-category/bay-wi...ow-rocker/
Nothing with seams. I didn’t intentionally half ass it, or I wouldn’t have paid Gerson for metal. My guess is the lack of demand for them to make a proper panel, as Bay Doka’s have a relatively low production number.
If you have a steady hand and a Dremel, you’re more than welcome to replicate the seam. I’ve thought of it, but haven’t decided if it’s worth of creating more work or not.
Doing the best I can folks. And I don’t have a clue what I’m doing. A day at a time. |
Trust me, I am well aware of what metal KF offers. If you will read my previous post, I pointed out the correct rocker that should have been installed. You are correct in that KF, and Autocraft both offer "under third window" rockers with no seam. This is, as you said, likely due to lack of demand. In your photos of cutting rust out, it is apparent that the bottom of the "under window" panel was not rusted out down to the seam.
Contrary to your postings, this is more than just a seam that can be cut in after the fact. This is the intersection of two separate panels. Each of those panels has a 90 degree flange bent into them that is spot welded together. Being that these are unibody vehicles, one can only assume that all of these seams/ panel connections add to the overall structural integrity of the vehicle. Butt welding, and then attempting to replicate a factory seam by remove metal with a dremel, will not only produce a sub par aesthetic result, but will reduce the previously mentioned structural rigidity.
And we've only touched on the missing horizontal seam. There are also the missing vertical seams at the B pillar, C pillar, etc. All of these pieces are reproduced in some form, so your question of "what's a guy to do" is answered by, well, buying the correct metal. There is no metal manufacturer that reproduces all of these panels to the T.
You should have bought the following for the L/H side of your truck (from front to back):
KF340 (cut off the facing flange on the top right side of the middle piece pictured)
KFBW499 (cut off top of seal channel so you're only left with the 90 flange coming off top of rocker curve)
KFBW960 (cut off the facing flange on the top right side)
KF404
Looks like you got the rear most rocker correct.
Keep in mind that most of the parts I listed are for the outer skins only. KF makes nice inner rockers, but does not make a baywindow intermediate rocker. Again, I will stress that the body seams are not purely aesthetic.
I understand that you might look at this like, hey, it's better than it was! But what really is the point, if you aren't doing it right? I would much rather buy a bus with rusty, but original panels, than what you currently have. If I saw missing body lines, I would only question the integrity of any other work done to the bus.
I hope you can see that i'm not trying to call you out, but just hoping you will correct what has been done. Good luck with your project, and I hope this helps!
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
VWsARE4RICHARDS,
I wasn’t aware there was a contest for Skills position here on the Samba, though you have presented strong evidence, I believe he’ll continue to reign.. |
i'll take that as a compliment
sorry that I as well as others have a strong level of detail and will spend countless hours to do something...even small and insignificant....correctly.
I have stayed out of this for the most part...it's your bus...do what you want. also sorry you feel I'm an asshole. I am...I make no bones about it...but there is a reason folks ship their buses to me from all of the US and Canada for work. also sorry I as well as others like to see proper repairs.
it is a very complex panel to make correct, and I applaud you for giving it a shot. at this point, start over or grind it down and do the old cave and pave and run with it
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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To remove the panel and do it correctly.
How do I achieve the inner welds on the panel attaching to both the b and c pillar when I do not have access to the interior of these seams?
If I cut out what I welded in, I’m not comprehending how I would have access to these seams to replicate the seam along the lower rocker.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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honestcharlie56
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2017
Posts: 87
Location: Houston, Tx
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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Tough crowd, I have nothing to add but do wanna see the progress. No matter what is said, whatever your doing to the bus beats what it would be doing sitting in the scrap heap.
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1982 Vanagon Westy
1974 Transporter
1971 Tin Top Westy |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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What you do is weld the flanges together to make your seam and go higher up on the "fake door" panel and weld the 2 pieces to that then plug/spot weld the lower lip to the inner rocker.
I can photoshop what I mean but it may be a day or 2
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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| honestcharlie56 wrote: |
| Tough crowd, I have nothing to add but do wanna see the progress. No matter what is said, whatever your doing to the bus beats what it would be doing sitting in the scrap heap. |
Tough, sure. I understand what the gents are saying. The reason I came here years ago was because I knew there were people that knew much more than me and seeked their insight.
It’s frustrating, I struggle with time to even look at it. I don’t give a damn, what has to happen, this truck is getting primer and paint before April 1st. I have plans for the truck for business and it isn’t doing me a thing being on stands in the shop.
Thank you for your optimism, kindness and support. I’m grateful for you and even some hecklers to tag along, I’m here to learn. And get better.
I also want to do a good job for personal account, and the greater knowledge for folks that may come across this thread.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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honestcharlie56
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2017
Posts: 87
Location: Houston, Tx
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| honestcharlie56 wrote: |
| Tough crowd, I have nothing to add but do wanna see the progress. No matter what is said, whatever your doing to the bus beats what it would be doing sitting in the scrap heap. |
Tough, sure. I understand what the gents are saying. The reason I came here years ago was because I knew there were people that knew much more than me and seeked their insight.
It’s frustrating, I struggle with time to even look at it. I don’t give a damn, what has to happen, this truck is getting primer and paint before April 1st. I have plans for the truck for business and it isn’t doing me a thing being on stands in the shop.
Thank you for your optimism, kindness and support. I’m grateful for you and even some hecklers to tag along, I’m here to learn. And get better.
I also want to do a good job for personal account, and the greater knowledge for folks that may come across this thread. |
Looks like we are here for the same thing, glad I'm allowed to tag along!
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1982 Vanagon Westy
1974 Transporter
1971 Tin Top Westy |
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advCo
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2017
Posts: 373
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:49 am Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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If I'm understanding correctly, I had to do something similar on the rear corner of my Bay. Repair panels came with incorrect/missing flanges for the vertical seams. I made a template with cardboard and cut a 1" strip out of some sheet metal, welded it on at a 90 and will spot weld the seam as the factory did. Actually wasn't too time consuming, bench sander makes smoothing the welds go pretty easy.
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"He pulled the mirrors off his Cadillac ‘cause he doesn’t like it looking like he looks back"
'68/'70 Ghia Coupe Project
'70 Westy Project - Champagne I Wannabe
A bunch of vintage Japanese motorcycles
"Much ingenuity with a little money is vastly more profitable and amusing than much money without ingenuity." -A. Bennett |
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gitchesum
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2003
Posts: 513
Location: North Cali
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:31 am Post subject: Re: A Pick-Em Up Truck Tale - 1968 Double Cab |
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I also have a 68 DC....been interesting finding parts, repairing things. One year only on a lot of the vehicle.
Good luck on the project.
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Looking for SP Kadron manifolds...please !!
57 SC
61 rag w/356B brakes
61 356B
Honda XLR 250, 69 Z50, Yamaha 100 Enduro...and others.
GMC SLT 4x4 Dmax
Kubota L3710, not enuf attachments.
And various VW's that come and go... |
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