Syncro rattle grinding whine noise. Bad VC, transaxle, diff?

[syncrodoka]

[Sodo]

Check your fuel tank support straps, maybe your tank has dropped down; and is pinning the starter.

A general concensus is that the fuel tank insulation was a USDOT requirement to reduce the amount of raw fuel emissions coming from the fuel tank. European Syncros have no insulation on the tank, and it "seems" like european Syncro transmissions last longer than US Syncros. But maybe it's because europeans change their lubricant?

Some folks think the reduced cooling air around the top of the trans (where 4th gear and the mainshaft bearing reside) causes 4th gear and the mainshaft bearing to run hotter and have a shorter life.

Probably a good idea to remove the insulation, at least in the areas near the 4th gear and the mainshaft bearing (top front). Especially if running a bigger engine, you should take any little benefit you can get because they add up.
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'90 Westy EJ25 F&R Peloquin TDBs, 3knobs, pressure-oiled, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[T3TRIS]

[T3TRIS]

Alright, it is now out of our hands...

I just did the round trip from Portland to Bend today, on snowy roads with a 2WD Camry to drop our transmission and front differential at German Transaxle of America. It was a lovely experience meeting Ken, Taketa and other staff members. Chatting with Ken was probably the most laid back and down to earth, yet upfront and honest conversation I've had with a mechanic!

Even though we're afraid of the condition of that transmission, we look forward to working with them.
I spent a couple hours chatting with Ken about everything from workmanship quality to communication skills, from basic transmission parts to debates about coupling or decoupling. It was a lovely way to spend a couple hours in Bend.
Now we just have to wait and see what GTA thinks of our current transmission condition and pick our upgrades based off of realistic budgets.
You can see the few photos I took during the visit on my website.

By the way, he showed me 3 sets of gears, OE, Weddle and Guard. It's interesting to me to see how you can actually visually see the quality, even in a photo. I'm not saying it says anything about which is better, but just pointing out how distinguishable each gear is. It might be tough to tell on the resized photo for this forum, it's definitely more visible in full size: very large photo!

The Guard gear sure is pretty!

_________________
Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery

[syncrodoka]

I would be hesitant about removing the insulation with a hot engine in such close proximity.

[T3TRIS]

[Sodo]

[T3TRIS]

[tjet]

I'm guessing that your trans was way low on gear oil.

Do you remember or measure how much came out when you initially drained it?

When was the last time you checked the level or topped it off?

[T3TRIS]

[Syncro Jael]

If you have the funds and plan to keep your Syncro. Purchase every new gear, R&P, Main shaft, Bearings, Aluminum housings, and every other internal part that you can afford. GTA is reputable re-builder and can get some of "Gears" parts. Buy the best parts available. Don't scrimp to save a couple hundred dollars. Also spend the funds to cool and filter your new ($10K+ transaxle). Install an oil temperature gauge to keep track of gear oil temps. At least get it plumbed for everything while they have it apart. It will pay you dividends in the future. Change the gear oil at least yearly and use a good quality gear oil. If your new rebuild ever makes noise, then scope it and find out what is failing. These boxes run virtually silent when in good mechanical condition.

It's only $$$.

Did I say $yncro? Those of us who own these understand the transaxle is the weak link.

Sorry to see all that damage. But you are on the road to enjoying your van again.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[Waldi]

[Sodo]

On this box, there are missing teeth on the Ring gear. These teeth were probably on the magnet. Somebody saw these chunks, then quickly sold the van. Maybe this wasted box was installed in this van just before it was sold.

This box had a broken magnet too Maybe the Ring gear teeth (large chunks) on the magnet collided with the Ring gear, breaking the magnet off.

This box is a perfect example of what's wrong with the advice to "drive it 'til it makes nose, then rebuild it." I've read this advice before, on TheSamba. And not so long ago.....

It was OK advice back in the day when you could get a used box at the junkyard for $175. Those days are gone, for at least 10 years now.
That mainshaft thats destroyed; that's $1800.
Destroyed low gear? $400 for each each for several gears.
The low-gear housing that broke because gears couldn't slide off shafts? $NLA
R&P is gonna be another $1500
This is a drop in the bucket, I can hardly imagine what this trans will cost, my gut feel its almost a total wreck. All new gears, all new shafts, main case re-bushed, need to find an unobtanium low-gear housing.

Sorry VanagonVentures, looks like you have a nice van and I hope you can get a gearbox together. I don't think its anything you "did"; I bet it was already a total wreck when you bought the van. There are people out there, doing this to their valuable trannies right now
adding $,000 and $,000 to their (soon) repair bills.

$NLA "low-gear housing" is going to be expensive, if you can find one. People are busting low-gear housings by bump-starting Syncros in reverse too, further reducing the number of used lowgear housings available. And there's other ways too.

If a Syncro makes ANY transaxle noises, that's gonna be $5 to $10k. A hairy magnet means it needs a rebuild fairly SOON. Check your magnets often, people, so you KNOW when it's starting to get hairy. If you let your magnet get "covered" (no clear space remaining) you have deleted many miles from your expensive gears & shafts. 1st and 2nd gear are machined into the mainshaft, if you wear out those gears the only way to renew them is to buy a new Porsche quality aftermarket mainshaft by GT.

Monitor the lubricant condition, then rebuild BEFORE destroying your expensive parts. If you have:

a "rebuilt box" (which could have old gears in it)
or, more than 100k miles
or, a big engine
or, drive fast (70+)

(and especially if "all of the above" which are MANY Vanagons)

....you should ensure the box ALWAYS has clean lubricant by changing oil often. Some people say "yearly" some say "every 15,000 miles" but if your magnet is getting hairy at 5,000 miles you need to KNOW that, and then to stop driving and rebuild NOW ---not drive it another 10,000 miles with polluted 'fluid".

There's only one way to know if your magnet's getting hairy, ya gotta go under the van...
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'90 Westy EJ25 F&R Peloquin TDBs, 3knobs, pressure-oiled, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[jberger]

It would be nice to see pics of the mainshaft, along with the other side of the mainshaft ball bearing. To me it looks like the pinion shaft migrated toward the rear of the van. The pinion bearing would have to be toast (any pics of it?). Was it caused by the failed idler bearings in the low gear housing or did the low gear idlers fail because of the debris from the ring and pinion? That must have made a hell of a noise when the ring gear teeth let go. I have a video of when my pinion head lost a chip of a tooth at syncro-de-mayo years ago. And that was a little chip.

J

[T3TRIS]

[Sodo]

Sounds like several thousand more than several thousand.
All new gears though. Thats gonna feel good squirtin’ down the highway!

If that mainshaft is still good its worth something like $500. Maybe more.
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'90 Westy EJ25 F&R Peloquin TDBs, 3knobs, pressure-oiled, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[T3TRIS]

[Slimvest]

Good for you for sharing all this info with everyone. Tough pill to swallow for sure.

My wife and I camped next to you at Nehalem. Looked like you had a nice van.
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'87 GL w/ Reimo top

[tjet]

You have a cheaper repair option if you're not yet ready for a huge unexpected repair bill. You can install a used 2wd trans. I think you may need to put a spacer under the front mount to make it work. You can also keep the front diff out & pull the axles. There's a way to do that as both have been done before.

[Igeo]