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Inter911 Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2004 Posts: 3 Location: Niagara-on-the-lake, ON Canada
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject: Static angle of ball joint beam |
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Can anyone tell me the correct, stock static angle of a front ball joint beam? The top is angled back and I have heard 3 degrees, 7 degrees or 10 degrees. Which is correct for a stock car? Thanks in advance. |
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gorbur Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2010 Posts: 187 Location: West of Calgary
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Static angle of ball joint beam |
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I have 3.5 degrees negative (top leans toward rear). From what i understand this should relate to a wheel caster of about the same if not more. Its stock suspension other than front/rear antisway bars. I'm getting close to having it ready for a alignment and will post the actual when i get it.
I also checked my ghia and its about the same. _________________ 73 - Ghia Cabriolet, currently under resto
76 - Type1, 1776, full restomod |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Static angle of ball joint beam |
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Well...if this is for a Beetle...the castor (which is what you are asking about) from the "book" (without guesswork) lists 3° 20’ +/- 1°....and of course that is "positive castor"...so as mentioned that means looking from the side, the top of the beam rakes toward the rear.
But..from experience....I can tell you that the tolerance they list....a +/- of 1°...is to much allowable "minus". You would rather have a tolerance like this:
3° 20’ +1° -0°. You do not want castor less than 3°.
Ray |
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Inter911 Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2004 Posts: 3 Location: Niagara-on-the-lake, ON Canada
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Static angle of ball joint beam |
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Thanks guys. That's what I was looking for. |
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ALB Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008 Posts: 3480 Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Static angle of ball joint beam |
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For a safe car at highway speeds and above you need to increase caster. Lowering the front usually takes away caster so you have to be even more aware. 40 years ago, as a very young man my main transport was a Cal Look bug. Between the select a drop and 135's the front was lowered 4 1/2- 5"; even at 60 mph the car was a bit of a handful; I knew nothing about caster then. The 1 time I took it up to over 100 mph a side gust blew me half way into the next lane before I could react. Only stayed up there for a moment, and then never again.
I own a Speedster replica now, am active on SOC (Speedsterowners.com) and almost every car owner active on the forum runs more than stock caster, some as much as 6 or 7 degrees. If you're going to drive this car (and by drive I mean not just to the show field and back home) at all, increase caster to 4-5 degrees. The caster shims made by Berg (and others) are cheap and easy to install.
http://www.geneberg.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=caster&x=7&y=8
As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al
Edit- Gene has more to say in his catalogs but here's what I found online-
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=12_384_2917 _________________ On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
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NJ John Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2007 Posts: 2166 Location: HdG, MD & NJ
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Static angle of ball joint beam |
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When I first built my drag buggy. I built a beam and installed adjusters. Slammed the front as low as it would go and installed one set of shims. Never measured or knew about caster. After doing a 80mph 180 on the track. I found I was at zero degrees of caster. _________________ 1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Static angle of ball joint beam |
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From the book "Chassis Engineering" by Herb Adams.
With dune buggies (I know, not stock beetle) we find up to 7° of positive caster helps driving/handling immensely... specially with shortened and lowered chassis...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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NJ John Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2007 Posts: 2166 Location: HdG, MD & NJ
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Static angle of ball joint beam |
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I modified the frame head to give me 14 degrees. I could do 115mph with one hand. _________________ 1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage |
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