Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
1973 FI to 1979 FI
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chaddhamilton
Samba Member


Joined: February 08, 2017
Posts: 27
Location: Charleston, SC
chaddhamilton is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

Hey Guys. I hope someone can help me out with a question. I have a 1973 bus with a single carbed 1.7L that was taken from from a 914. I recently bought a complete 2.0(GE code) with harness and computer to swap out with the 1.7 this winter. Looking ahead, I am trying to make heads or tails of what is left in my bus FI-wise. Whoever swapped the engine before I owned it, cut some wires and god knows what else.

I have the Bentley Book, but it only covers FI from 75 and up. I know i'm missing the ballast resistor. I was wondering if someone can tell me what this plug is? Nothing on the harness from the 79 fits it. From it, there's a large gauge wire that has been cut.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Any info is appreciated.

Chadd[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
alman72
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2014
Posts: 2334
Location: MICHIGAN
alman72 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

that is a vw diagnostic plug that has nothing to do with FI. I doubt your 73 had it. it was an option that early
edit-do you have the rectangular hole for the big electronics box in the right rear of the engine compartment? that would be a tell if your bus had FI.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

here is where I stole the pic. a cali 73 with FI? the hole is not factory I think.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 45801
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

I don't see a hole in the background of the test network plug shot.

FI was not available on a 73, it started in 75 (mid 74 on Cali automatics). That doesn't mean you can't cut a hole for the ECU and add a return line to your fuel tank, as long as you have all the FI components with the donor engine.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, OG paint 1971 Niagara blue decklid.

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
JimmieH Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 225
Location: Canterbury, NH
JimmieH is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

A '73 would have come with dual carbs. You can still use the FI that came with the GE engine. You'll just need to source a few more parts. Without pics it's hard to tell, but I'd guess you'll need at least
Double relay & alternator wiring
Resistor pack
Air cleaner & stand
Air flow meter
S-Boot
Decel valve
Fuel tank with return line fitting
Fuel pump, filter & lines
Most of these things are available in the Samba Classifieds regularly. It's a little bit of a project, and you will be rewarded when you suceed.
_________________
1978 Transporter 2.0 FI, BA6
Special Thanks to Razor's Customs, Boscawen, NH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
aeromech
Samba Member


Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 14610
Location: San Diego, California
aeromech is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

Good luck. Youíll need it.
_________________
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chaddhamilton
Samba Member


Joined: February 08, 2017
Posts: 27
Location: Charleston, SC
chaddhamilton is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

JimmieH wrote:
A '73 would have come with dual carbs. You can still use the FI that came with the GE engine. You'll just need to source a few more parts. Without pics it's hard to tell, but I'd guess you'll need at least
Double relay & alternator wiring
Resistor pack
Air cleaner & stand
Air flow meter
S-Boot
Decel valve
Fuel tank with return line fitting
Fuel pump, filter & lines
Most of these things are available in the Samba Classifieds regularly. It's a little bit of a project, and you will be rewarded when you suceed.


Guys, thanks for all the info.

Ok, the motor I just purchased came will all the FI stuff except the resistor pack, half and airbox(I have the top half with the meter attached). I think I have the decel valve too. I'll try to get a pic of the new lump and post it tomorrow.

A fuel pump and all the lines and stuff isn't a big deal. I will probably just T off the return instead of welding the fuel tank. I have a 68 beetle project for my son in the works, so I probably wont even start pulling this apart until winter, but at least I know what I need now and I can start looking for parts.

Again, thanks again for the info. It's much appreciated.
Chadd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
aeromech
Samba Member


Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 14610
Location: San Diego, California
aeromech is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

Once again, good luck because youíll need it. Seems to me you are going into this assuming itís going to be easy. It wonít be. Not at all. Simple things like not having the hole for the ecu or the stand for the aurbox. The fuel return is another. Then add to it 45 year old FI parts and a harness too. Good luck
_________________
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wasted youth
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 4877
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
Wasted youth is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

This is a curious proposition to me, because I have considered the same thing over the past few years. I also have a 1973 bus, but it has a relatively worn out 1.7 with a single mount progressive carb. But I have everything to convert this bus to a 2.0 hydraulic lifter engine with Sanden air conditioning and Vanagon air-cooled engine management controls. I can even upgrade the 003 automatic transmission to the 010 and maybe even change the R&P in that for a bit more highway speed but keeping the engine RPM down.

As Gary (Aeromech) notes, it will be a fair amount of work that will only see fruition with diligence and dollars... something that is far off for me.

The spare wiring harnesses I have would need refurbishment, and I will need to weld in the air cleaner bracket and also cut in the support for the ECM. These things I am tooled up to do and have a 1978 bus sitting around that I can take measurements from. And I have two spare 2.0 engines; a GE and a CV, along with the correct fuel tank and four different AFM's to choose from.

If I did not already have all this crap to trip over in my garage, I might consider otherwise. It's a bit expensive to gather up this stuff.
_________________
1968 Double Cab truck, 1973 Auto trans bus, 1978 Auto trans Sunroof bus with A/C and a 1987 Auto trans Westfalia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rustbus
Samba Member


Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 2066
Location: alberta
rustbus is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

i converted my 72 bus to complete 79 fuel injection. it was a lot of work but a lot of good fun too and rewarding.

i skipped nothing and mirrored as exactly as possible the 1979 layout, components, etc, right down the bending up new metal fuel lines to match.

ahort of weling in the air cleaner stand (i bolted it) i think you couldnt tell the difference from a factory install.

take a look at my build thread, starts around page 10 i think
_________________
May of '72 Deluxe. Red Bay Bus 2.0L L-Jet CS & 091 trans conversion
my Bus thread
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 18655
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

First...find out what is actually inside of your engine.

I think you stated its a 1973 1.7L taken from a 914 Porsche?

If so...it NEVER came with carbs. It came with D-jet fuel injection, different pistons with 8.2:1 compression, a totally difgerent distributor and a different cam.

So....that engine runs very well with the injecton set up from a 1.8L bus with L-jet. But...it will take some tweaks....and its compression "may" run you hot. Its torque band is a bit lkwer in the mid range than a bus.

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 45101

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

It only takes four wires to hook the FI system in to an early bus.

B+
Ign
Wire from starter soleniod
Wire to fuel pump


Other than that you need to:

Mount the ECU
Mount the air cleaner
Find and install an 091 bellhousing or change out the flywheel and the engine to tranny studs
Install FI fuel pump, filter, and figure out the fuel return line
Relocate the throttle cable as needed
Other?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wasted youth
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 4877
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
Wasted youth is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
...Find and install an 091 bellhousing or change out the flywheel and the engine to tranny studs.

Relocate the throttle cable as needed.


Help me out with these... why is this necessary? He has a Type 4.
_________________
1968 Double Cab truck, 1973 Auto trans bus, 1978 Auto trans Sunroof bus with A/C and a 1987 Auto trans Westfalia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 45101

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

Wasted youth wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
...Find and install an 091 bellhousing or change out the flywheel and the engine to tranny studs.

Relocate the throttle cable as needed.


Help me out with these... why is this necessary? He has a Type 4.


The later 228mm clutch will not fit inside the smaller early 002 bellhousing. He will also need the starter to match the 091 bellhousing if he goes that way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sjbartnik
Samba Member


Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5485
Location: Brooklyn
sjbartnik is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

chaddhamilton wrote:
[ I will probably just T off the return instead of welding the fuel tank.


I don't think that's gonna work. The fuel pressure regulator uses the the return line to regulate the fuel pressure. If you don't have a fuel return line for the regulator to bleed pressure to, then it seems to me you'd have an overly rich mixture all the time, perhaps significantly, as those FI fuel pumps are capable of putting out a far higher pressure than what the FI system needs/wants.

The system is dumb and has no way of knowing what the fuel pressure is; it just assumes it is correct. If the pressure is not correct, mixture will be affected.
_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KentABQ Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2216
Location: Albuquerque NM
KentABQ is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

Here are a couple things that should help:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670338&highlight=fuel+injection

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/afc_fi_training_troubleshooting_manual.php


I swapped out dual carbs to FI a couple years ago with a huge amount of help from the Sambanistas and Asiab3.
It's not a difficult process, but not a walk in the park. Best of luck!
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"

"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!"
---WildIdea

Bus ownership via emoticons:
Very Happy Shocked Mad Sad Embarassed d'oh! Pray Brick wall Pray Dancing Dancing Dancing ---williamM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 18655
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
chaddhamilton wrote:
[ I will probably just T off the return instead of welding the fuel tank.


I don't think that's gonna work. The fuel pressure regulator uses the the return line to regulate the fuel pressure. If you don't have a fuel return line for the regulator to bleed pressure to, then it seems to me you'd have an overly rich mixture all the time, perhaps significantly, as those FI fuel pumps are capable of putting out a far higher pressure than what the FI system needs/wants.

The system is dumb and has no way of knowing what the fuel pressure is; it just assumes it is correct. If the pressure is not correct, mixture will be affected.


Yeah....I'm not exactly sure what he meant by "T off"......

Did he mean dead end.....like you think he did? Because ...yes.....it will result in very high/rich fuel mixture and at probably 70 plus psi everything from the iniector bodies to the pump crimp seal may leak.

Or did he mean.....T it back into the feed line at an accumulator.....which still will not work....same thing kind of.....

Or did he mean use a T and run it up to the filler neck or one of the vent hoses?....which can work fine.
Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chaddhamilton
Samba Member


Joined: February 08, 2017
Posts: 27
Location: Charleston, SC
chaddhamilton is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

Ok, lotsa food for thought. Thanks for the tip on the bell housing. I know a yard up the road that should have one I can pull. Rustybus, i'll check your thread out.

I'm not going into project thinking it's gonna be a snap. But I am good at staying on task and debugging issues as they arise. Most importantly, I DON'T quit projects once I start them (much to my wife's chagrin). If it takes me 6 months of my evenings to get it swapped, then 6 months it is.

Thanks for all the info, guys.[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KentABQ Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2216
Location: Albuquerque NM
KentABQ is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

Keep up posted, okay? It will help future Sambanistas wanting to do the same thing.
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"

"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!"
---WildIdea

Bus ownership via emoticons:
Very Happy Shocked Mad Sad Embarassed d'oh! Pray Brick wall Pray Dancing Dancing Dancing ---williamM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chaddhamilton
Samba Member


Joined: February 08, 2017
Posts: 27
Location: Charleston, SC
chaddhamilton is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

Here's the bus I'm working on for the last 2 years. A little before and after.
Before:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 45101

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI Reply with quote

It sounds like a lot of people who have done this swap will just "T" into the suction side of the pump and hook the return line in there.

I would recommend to the OP that he find a pump with 5/16 (8mm) OD inlets and outlets and use that over the stock pump that has different sized inlets and outlets, and then use the later style canister filter after the pump as per 1986 and later Vanagons and all other FI VW of the era.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB