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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4419
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| chaddhamilton wrote: |
| Buggeee wrote: |
| That is a beautiful blue on a Bay. What color is that? |
Thanks. I spent a lot of time on getting the panels really close to flat. and still there's a few spots that I missed, but it's good for a driver.
The color is actually Lamborghini Blu Le Mans. Pretty close to Reef Blue. Top is Mercedes Bianco White. Both PPG. I was told as a side effect, I would gain and extra few HP's 
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And girlfriends too probably! LOL. Its a really pretty color on a Bay.
_________________
1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
| Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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chaddhamilton
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2017
Posts: 42
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| Buggeee wrote: |
| That is a beautiful blue on a Bay. What color is that? |
Thanks. I spent a lot of time on getting the panels really close to flat. and still there's a few spots that I missed, but it's good for a driver.
The color is actually Lamborghini Blu Le Mans. Pretty close to Reef Blue. Top is Mercedes Bianco White. Both PPG. I was told as a side effect, I would gain and extra few HP's
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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I bet it's Orient Blue, like my 1973. I am working on removing the spray paint from mine:
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4419
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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mikewire
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2010
Posts: 805
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:37 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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Just like RustBus, I did the same FI swap into my 1972 (Oct. 1971) Deluxe 9 Passenger Bus.
It wasn't particularly hard for me to do. I did procure a late Bay FI fuel tank, had it hot tanked and lined, and swapped that in. I cut a hole for the FI box, and had an FI airbox stand fabricated (also bolted in) for the FI airbox. FI fuel pump was bolted in using a rubber mount isolated system to the left rear frame rail. I also bolted up a 210mm flywheel and clutch for the existing 3 rib transmission.
I had a small wiring issue in the FI harness but overcame that after a bit of troubleshooting.
I'd say if you decide to go forward with the swap, be sure you replace all fuel lines (with good new ethanol resistant fuel line) and use the right FI clamps and metal lines where needed. Probably also plan for a bulkhead fitting like I made in my thread, that will overcome the one major weak point of the FI fuel system. Injectors may also need a rehab, that's pretty cheap to have done.
Plan, label, and use the correct hardware and it'll be a good swap and as reliable as stock FI from a late bay can be.
_________________
-Mike
@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro
1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:36 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
It sounds like a lot of people who have done this swap will just "T" into the suction side of the pump and hook the return line in there.
I would recommend to the OP that he find a pump with 5/16 (8mm) OD inlets and outlets and use that over the stock pump that has different sized inlets and outlets, and then use the later style canister filter after the pump as per 1986 and later Vanagons and all other FI VW of the era. |
Ah....yeah....I should have known that! Forgot all about that method. Getting slow...... 
And.....that method is not really a problem. It works better to put a small accumulator right there in that spot T spot right before the pump.
The only downside.....is when the tank gets really low. Without the return line feed right next to the suction side you can be more prone to suck air. |
The flow of the fuel leaving the tank is only what the engine requires not the full flow through the pump, plus the bus tank sits high so gravity helps keep the fuel under pressure, so I doubt there is too much of a problem unless the fuel in the loop gets overly hot. |
Yes....not quite.....with a carburetor.....that is close to true. However with fuel injection like he is moving back to.....the pump moves about 1 liter per minute through the fuel loop. Thats 33.8 ounces per minute.
Even at 15mpg at 60 mph.....thats only 2.25 ounces per minute actual usage by by the engine....per minute. So the pump moves roughly 15X what the engine uses........but I get what you were getting at.....
Its close to a 1:1 movement of fuel going out and fuel coming back in at a constant. And as you note with the higher tank you are not as likely to pull a vortex at very low tank levels like in regular cars. Ray |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:25 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
It sounds like a lot of people who have done this swap will just "T" into the suction side of the pump and hook the return line in there.
I would recommend to the OP that he find a pump with 5/16 (8mm) OD inlets and outlets and use that over the stock pump that has different sized inlets and outlets, and then use the later style canister filter after the pump as per 1986 and later Vanagons and all other FI VW of the era. |
Ah....yeah....I should have known that! Forgot all about that method. Getting slow......
And.....that method is not really a problem. It works better to put a small accumulator right there in that spot T spot right before the pump.
The only downside.....is when the tank gets really low. Without the return line feed right next to the suction side you can be more prone to suck air. |
The flow of the fuel leaving the tank is only what the engine requires not the full flow through the pump, plus the bus tank sits high so gravity helps keep the fuel under pressure, so I doubt there is too much of a problem unless the fuel in the loop gets overly hot. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:25 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
It sounds like a lot of people who have done this swap will just "T" into the suction side of the pump and hook the return line in there.
I would recommend to the OP that he find a pump with 5/16 (8mm) OD inlets and outlets and use that over the stock pump that has different sized inlets and outlets, and then use the later style canister filter after the pump as per 1986 and later Vanagons and all other FI VW of the era. |
Ah....yeah....I should have known that! Forgot all about that method. Getting slow......
And.....that method is not really a problem. It works better to put a small accumulator right there in that spot T spot right before the pump.
The only downside.....is when the tank gets really low. Without the return line feed right next to the suction side you can be more prone to suck air. |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| So I guess Stu will have to share |
Ha! Room for all... |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16971
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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So I guess Stu will have to share
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:49 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| chaddhamilton wrote: |
Here's the bus I'm working on for the last 2 years. A little before and after.
Before:
After:
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Sweeet! If you want, I can set you up on a Z bed in my garage and you can finish some of my projects. I rarely seem to get anything done. I can pay you in citrus and maybe some avocados. |
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JaimeH 
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 265
Location: Canterbury, NH
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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FWIW this tank is really clean. You’d likely get back some or all of your investment offering your tank back to another user. Stock is king.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2244105
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1978 Transporter 2.0 FI, BA6
Special Thanks to Razor's Customs, Boscawen, NH |
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chaddhamilton
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2017
Posts: 42
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:12 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
It sounds like a lot of people who have done this swap will just "T" into the suction side of the pump and hook the return line in there.
I would recommend to the OP that he find a pump with 5/16 (8mm) OD inlets and outlets and use that over the stock pump that has different sized inlets and outlets, and then use the later style canister filter after the pump as per 1986 and later Vanagons and all other FI VW of the era. |
Yep, that's my plan for that T. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:37 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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It sounds like a lot of people who have done this swap will just "T" into the suction side of the pump and hook the return line in there.
I would recommend to the OP that he find a pump with 5/16 (8mm) OD inlets and outlets and use that over the stock pump that has different sized inlets and outlets, and then use the later style canister filter after the pump as per 1986 and later Vanagons and all other FI VW of the era. |
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chaddhamilton
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2017
Posts: 42
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:17 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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Here's the bus I'm working on for the last 2 years. A little before and after.
Before:
After:
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KentABQ
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:29 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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Keep up posted, okay? It will help future Sambanistas wanting to do the same thing.
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
         ---williamM |
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chaddhamilton
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2017
Posts: 42
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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Ok, lotsa food for thought. Thanks for the tip on the bell housing. I know a yard up the road that should have one I can pull. Rustybus, i'll check your thread out.
I'm not going into project thinking it's gonna be a snap. But I am good at staying on task and debugging issues as they arise. Most importantly, I DON'T quit projects once I start them (much to my wife's chagrin). If it takes me 6 months of my evenings to get it swapped, then 6 months it is.
Thanks for all the info, guys.[/img] |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:08 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
| chaddhamilton wrote: |
| [ I will probably just T off the return instead of welding the fuel tank. |
I don't think that's gonna work. The fuel pressure regulator uses the the return line to regulate the fuel pressure. If you don't have a fuel return line for the regulator to bleed pressure to, then it seems to me you'd have an overly rich mixture all the time, perhaps significantly, as those FI fuel pumps are capable of putting out a far higher pressure than what the FI system needs/wants.
The system is dumb and has no way of knowing what the fuel pressure is; it just assumes it is correct. If the pressure is not correct, mixture will be affected. |
Yeah....I'm not exactly sure what he meant by "T off"......
Did he mean dead end.....like you think he did? Because ...yes.....it will result in very high/rich fuel mixture and at probably 70 plus psi everything from the iniector bodies to the pump crimp seal may leak.
Or did he mean.....T it back into the feed line at an accumulator.....which still will not work....same thing kind of.....
Or did he mean use a T and run it up to the filler neck or one of the vent hoses?....which can work fine.
Ray |
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KentABQ
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Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:07 am Post subject: Re: 1973 FI to 1979 FI |
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| chaddhamilton wrote: |
| [ I will probably just T off the return instead of welding the fuel tank. |
I don't think that's gonna work. The fuel pressure regulator uses the the return line to regulate the fuel pressure. If you don't have a fuel return line for the regulator to bleed pressure to, then it seems to me you'd have an overly rich mixture all the time, perhaps significantly, as those FI fuel pumps are capable of putting out a far higher pressure than what the FI system needs/wants.
The system is dumb and has no way of knowing what the fuel pressure is; it just assumes it is correct. If the pressure is not correct, mixture will be affected.
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2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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