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2275cc stoplight to stoplight
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fl59bug
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

I'm a little old to be thinking like this, lol, but would my '59 bug with the following carefully and lovingly built 2275cc run with my 490-500 rwhp ls7-powered ~3200lb car from stoplight to stoplight?

-- 94x82
--wedgemated crank with lightened flywheel, 5.4 super rods
--10:1 compression
--FK-46 or FK-89
--1.4 rockers
--WedgePort 44x37.5 heads with dual springs, [email protected] valve lift
--51 IDAs with match-ported manifolds, 44mm vents, F2 Emulsion, 55 idle, 185 main and 210 air jets
--close ratio 3rd and 4th tranny
-- 1 3/4 merged header with stinger

All the data I've seen points to around 200 (flywheel) hp with this setup, which would make for perhaps 170whp which in a 1650lb (or so) VW doesn't seem like that good of a match-up on paper.

Again, I'm interested only in "from a dig" acceleration not 1/8th or 1/4 mile as for those the better power to weight ratio of the comparison car might slant the odds in its favor. On that note, I "know" (or do I? Smile) that in the 1/4th the VW configuration above can go perhaps 12.5-13.0 or so depending on conditions.

Has anyone actually tested the 0-60 of their similarly-configured VW with one of those "Race-pak" accelerometers that stick on the windshield?

Thanks in advance for entertaining my bench-racing juvenile question - Ted


Last edited by fl59bug on Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

I would think you might even nudge that LS7 ever so slightly in the 8th if you cut a good light. But diffinitly from stoplight to stoplight.
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Bugsy61
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

Figuring both drivers weigh 200 pounds each, the bugs power to weight ratio is 9.25. The other cars power to weight ration is 6.94. Bugs have outstanding weight bias on the rear tires, so if you can freak him out enough to spin his tires, you can easily beat him out of the hole, but he'll run you down by 60 mph.
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

No probably not. If you installed a close ratio 1/2 gears than you might have a chance to stay bumper to bumper with them. You might be able to beat them 60' but 100' and the race would be over. 0-60 MPH no chance at all.


The hell with any simulator. Put your car on the drag strip and compare your 60' time with any of the Mustang/Camaro guys.
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fl59bug
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies so far - I'm planning to start building the 2275 in question, beginning with purchasing the best heads and carbs my budget will allow, and want to know how beforehand much of a "rush" it will provide accelerating out of the hole so I can be somewhat prepared for the excitement (or lack thereof).

On the one hand power-wise there will be no comparing it to what I'm used to until now as far as VW powerplants (a couple used 1600s back in the mid to late 80s, a 1776 (same timeframe) which was great at first but then ran like crap due to a vacuum leak around the Dellorto 40mm manifolds and 20-something odd years later, after a hiatus from VWs now a big bore 40hp and a 36hp with a fresh top end).

On the other hand my not new, not new to me either Smile garage queen 26000 mile Z06 has long tubes, a CAI and a tune, and is scary fast especially with its bald tires lol. I don't think I'll ever be able to use all its horses, but I'm wondering now whether having driven this car will "taint" my impression of a fast N/A vw motor.

I don't want to, and really don't have the funds anyway, to build a turbo setup but I do know those can pump some serious hp. For now though I'll go N/A.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

Driving the VW may seem faster then the Vette because in a smaller car you get the impression you are going faster. On the drag strip with good tires the VW will wheelie and that is an awesome experience all by itself.

I have a lot more fun drag racing my 14 second Dunebuggy than my 13 second Ghia because the open cockpit provides a lot bigger thrill.
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Last edited by vwracerdave on Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Slow 1200
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

There's N/A cars running high 11s without anything too fancy besides really good heads and lots of attention to detail and tuning
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fl59bug
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
Driving the VW may seem faster then the Vette because in a smaller car you get the impression you are going faster. On the drag strip with good tires the VW will wheelie and that is an awesome experience all by itself.

I have a lot more fun drag racing my 14 second Dunebuggy than my 13 second Ghia because the open cockpit provides a lot bigger thrill.


Very good points - I forgot about the wheelie thing! That alone imho is worth its weight in gold.
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fl59bug
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

Slow 1200 wrote:
There's N/A cars running high 11s without anything too fancy besides really good heads and lots of attention to detail and tuning


True, a lot of factors - not the least of which is the driver - determine how fast or slow a car is.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

I knew I was forgetting something in the go-fast "cookbook" I started this thread with. I was missing mention of the 1 3/4 merged header exhaust. I edited the first post to include this!
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richierich
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

I have pretty much the motor you're talking about building in my Oval. Everyone that I've taken out in it who doesn't know VW's is impressed. It funny because on the strip it doesn't seem all that but on the street, it's a different matter.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

richierich wrote:
I have pretty much the motor you're talking about building in my Oval. Everyone that I've taken out in it who doesn't know VW's is impressed. It funny because on the strip it doesn't seem all that but on the street, it's a different matter.


Nice! Can't wait to get started on this beastly engine. If all goes well I'm around 2-3 weeks from doing so. I'm voraciously consuming all the knowledge I can from these forums and others who've gone before me in this endeavor!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

In a light bug, it doesnt just "Feel" faster, it IS faster. There is nothing imaginary about it.

Hows your Z06 geared? Is the 1st gear low enough to launch hard from a dig? Enough traction?
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maui
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

Go bigger, like 2500 and DOTs.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

Two step, slicks and a spool. Launch at 8k! Bump the compression some.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

fl59bug wrote:
richierich wrote:
I have pretty much the motor you're talking about building in my Oval. Everyone that I've taken out in it who doesn't know VW's is impressed. It funny because on the strip it doesn't seem all that but on the street, it's a different matter.


Nice! Can't wait to get started on this beastly engine. If all goes well I'm around 2-3 weeks from doing so. I'm voraciously consuming all the knowledge I can from these forums and others who've gone before me in this endeavor!


Oh, my 0-60 is 5.6 seconds if that's any help.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
In a light bug, it doesnt just "Feel" faster, it IS faster. There is nothing imaginary about it.

Hows your Z06 geared? Is the 1st gear low enough to launch hard from a dig? Enough traction?


Aside from a brief ride in a bug with a tired 1914, its been so long since I've been fast in a bug ("fast" being relative ie moving from a 1600 to a 1776 that I bought from Car Custom and which had an Engle 120, 12 lb flywheel, dual 40 Dellortos, 1 1/2" merged header but completely stock heads 'cause I was just a young guy and couldn't afford headwork!).

I hear what you're saying about lightweight and all, and I can't wait for the first time I get to stomp the pedal and feel what will be the fastest bug I've ever ridden in!

My Z isn't anything special compared to what is rolling off the line in 2019, but I wanted to use it as a comparison, 'cause in my limited experience with speed it thus far is king. It has a manual tranny with 3:42 final drive (as opposed to the 400 hp auto 2:56 to 1 geared 2007 LS2 car I had before it which was alot less quick!). With the Z I've almost ended up upside down in a ditch back before I learned to properly respect the car's power and got stupid and floored it after a light rain. First gear is 2.66:1 and tops out at 61mph, 2nd is 1.78, 3rd is 1.30, 4th is 1.00, 5th is 0.74 and 6th is .50.


Last edited by fl59bug on Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

maui wrote:
Go bigger, like 2500 and DOTs.
I like this idea, and I'll definitely try at least 50% of it ie getting some slicks or drag radials for track use. I hear good tires can drop your et 1/2 second or more Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

NJ John wrote:
Two step, slicks and a spool. Launch at 8k! Bump the compression some.


yeehaw! Smile My heads should be get for some rpms as I plan to get the 650 springs. I'd rather have rpms to spare than find out the hard way I over-revved the thing!

I'm still getting my terminology down and everything with drag racing, and have heard of the two step, but do they make those for our vee-dubs? Pure racers talk about 2 steps, bump boxes and trans brakes. Not sure I'll ever go that far but its nice to know the lingo lol.

On the compression, I live on the east coast so I do have access to 93 octane and could always mix in some VP!


Last edited by fl59bug on Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 2275cc stoplight to stoplight Reply with quote

richierich wrote:
fl59bug wrote:
richierich wrote:
I have pretty much the motor you're talking about building in my Oval. Everyone that I've taken out in it who doesn't know VW's is impressed. It funny because on the strip it doesn't seem all that but on the street, it's a different matter.


Nice! Can't wait to get started on this beastly engine. If all goes well I'm around 2-3 weeks from doing so. I'm voraciously consuming all the knowledge I can from these forums and others who've gone before me in this endeavor!


Oh, my 0-60 is 5.6 seconds if that's any help.


That is pretty good! Did you measure with the Racepak or something?
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