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WReel
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Antioch california
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 Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:28 pm Post subject: junkyard efi |
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I assume that someone here has already done this or can point me in the right direction.
In the past I was considering doing a junkyard efi conversion using an s10 as the donor vehichle for an amc eagle I had a few years ago, never actually did it but read enough to understand the basics of it.
Now I'm looking to get a little more power out of my motor and was thinking of doing this to my 1600 dp. What would be the best donor for this ? A 4cyl gm or does it really matter as long as the vehichle doesn't have a chipped ignition? "Because of the anti theft system"
Looking for any helpful info. Thanks in advance |
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UK Luke 72
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 2875
Location: Little Britain
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15168
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:30 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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| I have been wondering the same thing. Is it because of a lack of software to access the factory EFI to make changes? |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20891
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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You are are trying to stuff 10 pounds of apples into a 5 pound bag if you are trying to use a junkyard ECM.... Sure you can fab up a lot of hardware (tb and censors and manifolds and injectors) but when getting into controlling all that there is a lot more precision involved..... Trying to get into a "factory" ECM is a bitch and it usually wants a whole lot in inputs from "body" functions that you either have to remove (re-configure) from ECM or build in hardware garbage to satisfy the ECM ... Do you know how to cheat the clutch pedal depressed for start or trans in neutral or door open or dome light on or about 50 other things the ECM thinks has to be a certain way just to start up?
We did this on a 3.5 liter Ford motor and tried to adapt the dedicated ECM and harness to get it work in a 46 Ford convertible, and it was a bitch, wasted to many hours and to many brain cells ... All I could say to buddy was you should put a carburetor or MS on it...
Spend many hours just trying to fake ECM into thinking it was ok... But there was a slew of trouble codes that had to be dealt with before it would even start.... Plug and play (aftermarket) is actually best....
Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Krochus
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2017
Posts: 892
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:19 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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You can use all sorts of junkyard parts to fuel inject an engine
Just not the ECM. Which is no different than swapping on a junkyard carb from a completely different engine that you cannot rejet and expecting it to work good.
An aftermarket ECM can be as little as $250 and will be money well spent
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1970 Turbo Baja Bug Turbaja 2165 t3/t4 Speeduino sequential EFI LS3 coil on plug ignition
1965 Chevy c30, Microsquirt turbo aluminum 5.3/nv4500 |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15168
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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So I am to understand then that all OEM ECMs are untunable? even the older ones without all the interlinking to everything conceivable?
I am thinking specifically of the early '8o's Porsche 944 system. |
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Krochus
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2017
Posts: 892
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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| oprn wrote: |
So I am to understand then that all OEM ECMs are untunable? even the older ones without all the interlinking to everything conceivable?
I am thinking specifically of the early '8o's Porsche 944 system. |
Some can be tuned. If you had the software and can burn EPROM chips which requires obsolete and highly specialized equipment.
Those old jetronic systems were horrible. You would be better off with a GM TBI setup than you would with one of those. Either way this is neither the cheap nor the easy way of doing this just buy an aftermarket computer.
You could probably use a late model GM computer. But I think a software license for hp tuners to do so yourself is like a grand!
_________________
1970 Turbo Baja Bug Turbaja 2165 t3/t4 Speeduino sequential EFI LS3 coil on plug ignition
1965 Chevy c30, Microsquirt turbo aluminum 5.3/nv4500 |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20891
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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| oprn wrote: |
So I am to understand then that all OEM ECMs are untunable? even the older ones without all the interlinking to everything conceivable?
I am thinking specifically of the early '8o's Porsche 944 system. |
Think of OEM systems as password protected.... If you don't have password you are not going to get in, once in where are you going to go, do you have road map.......
With MS and other aftermarket its all there as close as your cell phone, or tablet or laptop and all you need is "Tuner Studio" or aftermarket producers tuner app....... And oh.....NO password... And no obnoxious unimportant things to remove/defeat....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15168
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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| As horrible as they are we have 3 of them in the yard here that I have yet to put a dime into one of which I have owned for 10 years now. But I get what you are saying about access to changing the programming. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27748
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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| oprn wrote: |
So I am to understand then that all OEM ECMs are untunable? even the older ones without all the interlinking to everything conceivable?
I am thinking specifically of the early '8o's Porsche 944 system. |
Computers come in a wide variety of flavors.
I've been amazed at the diversity. some are very stupid and crude, others quite sophisticated, some good, some bad. Some well known, others obscure.
For instance a early 90's mustangs had a darn good computer, even though the engine itself was a dinosaur, compared to the same era mazda mx5 is mechanically cutting edge, but it's computer is dumber than a toaster. other models of ford had the ignition modules integrated..god help them, and you'd THINK they'd all be the same!! not at all.
Hondas ruled that era. The honda compters are quite good. I don't know about a 4cyl s-10, might be in the category of tragically obscure, along with it's engine, (which was pretty good IMO). |
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petrol punk
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Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 1048
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:24 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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What's to stop someone from using a chipped Honda ECU? Seems like all the EF/EG/EK Honda guys run a chipped OEM ECU, regardless if its 200hp N/A B16 or a 600hp turbo D16. There's always at least 2 dozen D or B series Hondas in the local junkyard in OBD0, OBD1, and OBD2 flavors.
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36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval
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WReel
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Antioch california
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:44 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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I had figured trying to use a smaller 4 cylinder similar to the 1600 would work. "Honda / possibly Toyota from the mid 80s" I should be able to supply the ecu with all sensors aside from coolant temp. I'm not sure what effect that will have.
The next time I'm at the junkyard I'll see if I can't find something. Does anyone know of any 4 cylinder tbi cars?
Also was wondering if anyone has any experience with speeduino? |
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-Alex77-
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Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: Finland
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karu
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Joined: November 11, 2008
Posts: 229
Location: Cross Lanes, WV
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:23 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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If you want to go even cheaper, check out
https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino
About 100+. I have not used it but this is what I plan to use some time later. |
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slalombuggy
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9340
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:24 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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Finding injection parts for mid 80s, early 90s cars is going to be a crapshoot of frustration. Crappy systems to start with and no one is making replacement parts for them any more. The only tbi 4 banger I remember is the one in Dodge Omnis and it was sketchy at best.
And in most efi systems. Coolant temp is king, so you need to figure out that input or you'll never have a functioning system.
brad |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15168
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:38 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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| I am not thinking of going FI on my present project anytime soon but I do have 2 parts cars with it on and it seems a shame to junk them and go buy a different system for a future project. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20891
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:25 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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Believe there is company out there that buys old ECU/ECM's and refurbished them to sell as replacements.... Might scout I-net to see if so, if so you might get a few dollar but not enough for a happy meal....
But its like a lot of things today, old technology just has no place in to day realms no matter how much it cost in the beginning....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4940
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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Gotta love the samba,, full of people who believe if they can't do something it can't be done.
I have a customer that used the ecu from an ecotek. Got the software on line to tune it, and it runs awsome. For even less than m/s.
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Max Welton
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Location: Black Forest, CO
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slalombuggy
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9340
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: junkyard efi |
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| mcmscott wrote: |
Gotta love the samba,, full of people who believe if they can't do something it can't be done.
I have a customer that used the ecu from an ecotek. Got the software on line to tune it, and it runs awsome. For even less than m/s. |
Yup, but an ecotech is 30 year new technology than mid 80s. I'm no it saying it can't be done, but you're not gaining anything trying to use 30 year old technology that no one supports any more and was pure crap compared to today.And most small Japanese cars ran carbs until the late 80s.
A buddy just did an ecotech swap in his Baja last year. Getting the stand alone reworked GM ECU and new harness was dirt cheap. Hooked up 3 wires and turned the key.
brad |
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