Starter disassembly

[VDub67]

Does anyone know an easy way (or any way) to remove the stop bushing on the gear end of the starter? It's held by a tiny "clip" but not apparently a circlip.

I'd like to remove this so I can complete disassembly and clean that end of the starter components.
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1967 Beetle that transformed into a Baja - 1600cc with full flow oil and dual ports & 2-barrel Holley/Weber.

After a crash in 1988, body parts were scavenged and now a reincarnation to a sand rail with totally new engine (2180cc with hydraulic lifters and twin 2-barrel EMPI carbs.) Construction is in progress ...

[viiking]

I’ve only done this on a 12V Bosch.
There is a c clip. Really only a three-quarters of a circle of round spring wire.
From memory you have to pull the mechanism away from the c clip then use a very fine jewellers screwdriver in the groove of the c clip and force it out.

When putting it back you need to reshape the clip as you tend to deform it when you remove it.

Here’s a photo of how it goes back together.

[VDub67]

Thanks Viiking. Mine is the original German starter. Yes, the clip inside the retaining groove is a "C" shape but, unlike your picture, mine appears to be flat (not round). As such, I would expect it to be of the circlip variety, with tiny holes on the ends to grab w/ circlip pliers. But no holes!!
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1967 Beetle that transformed into a Baja - 1600cc with full flow oil and dual ports & 2-barrel Holley/Weber.

After a crash in 1988, body parts were scavenged and now a reincarnation to a sand rail with totally new engine (2180cc with hydraulic lifters and twin 2-barrel EMPI carbs.) Construction is in progress ...

[viiking]

Then do as I say. Get a very small screwdriver in the circlip groove and try and get under the circlip and try to pry the circlip out. This may damage it so be careful.

Circlips are however cheap so if you damage one I’m sure you can get a new one.

[viiking]

Or see if you can get two small objects and push the clip at the same time. Failing that cut a piece of flat metal with a mouth cutout the width of the clip (like a too small spanner) and then tap it out using the flat steel.

[KTPhil]

The bevel on the cut ends of the clip may allow you to compress it so you can get an edge free. Strong circlip pliers may work it, or you may need to improvise some other "jaws of life," but the bevel is the key.

[VDub67]

I appreciate all the suggestions. And I take it back: it IS round, exactly like Viiking's starter. This is one of those mechanical dilemmas where I'll have to get myself into a Zen state and try to do a Hat Trick.
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1967 Beetle that transformed into a Baja - 1600cc with full flow oil and dual ports & 2-barrel Holley/Weber.

After a crash in 1988, body parts were scavenged and now a reincarnation to a sand rail with totally new engine (2180cc with hydraulic lifters and twin 2-barrel EMPI carbs.) Construction is in progress ...

[viiking]

Here’s another disassembly photo including the shaft. By compressing the spring the circlip and the circlip groove becomes somewhat exposed. From memory the fit is a bit sloppy so it should be relatively easy to get a screwdriver in the groove.

Also from memory when reinstalling you might have to push the mechanism over the circlip quite hard. Memory is a bit hazy now but I took a photo of every disassembly and assembly step when I did it a few years ago.

[my59]

I have improvised on clips like that by pushing against one side of the clip with a screwdriver and using a nail clamped into needle nose vice grips to get the clip started.
Always works, usually involves bloodshed.
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my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget.

[klroger]

Briggs & Stratton make a tool to remove these that does not involve blood. I have one & it works awesome. If you want, let me know & I'll check into a part #

Roger
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I Didn't know what to do, So I Didn't do anything!!!!

[kreemoweet]

This webpage may be of interest: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_starter_and_solenoid_repair_-bosch-.html

When I messed with a Bosch starter, I had no difficulty prying the little lock ring out of its groove, and it just pushed back on with a gentle squeeze in
a vice. Also, I used a cheap faucet handle puller, available
in the plumbing parts section of any hardware store, to pull the bendix gear stop ring back over the lock ring.
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'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[VDub67]

Well, I attempted the clip removal with all I could muster. Predictably, I spilled blood. Removal of that clip is intractable! As an aside, I admire most things the Germans came up with in their mechanical designs - not only for VW but for other makes. The clip on the starter shaft will stand out as an exception: it's a poor design!

I greatly admire Viiking for having found a way to get the bugger out.

If I didn't know better, I'd say the design is tailored to a manufacturer not wanting you to do maintenance in a reasonable fashion.

The clip holds in place a thrust bearing, and a crude one at that. What I intend to do it so remove it by brute force, and then replace it by one or two adjacent circlips or spring washers. All this trust bearing does is to provide a stop for eh drive gear when it is pushed out to engage the flywheel. As such, the clips as I describe, long with perhaps a washer on the inside to make up the difference should be fine in my judgment.
_________________
1967 Beetle that transformed into a Baja - 1600cc with full flow oil and dual ports & 2-barrel Holley/Weber.

After a crash in 1988, body parts were scavenged and now a reincarnation to a sand rail with totally new engine (2180cc with hydraulic lifters and twin 2-barrel EMPI carbs.) Construction is in progress ...

[VDub67]

Per my last post, I'll try to post a picture of the final modified product for others to see.

On a related note, I's like to get the solenoid apart for inspection. On one end of it (the end that engages the starter bendix), there is a thin ring with a small flat on one edge. I also see 2 unthreaded holes on the side into which might slip a special spanner wrench.

Gas anyg ever removed this rig? Is it best to use the small flat to turn (unthread) the ring, or is a spanner wrench the way to go?
_________________
1967 Beetle that transformed into a Baja - 1600cc with full flow oil and dual ports & 2-barrel Holley/Weber.

After a crash in 1988, body parts were scavenged and now a reincarnation to a sand rail with totally new engine (2180cc with hydraulic lifters and twin 2-barrel EMPI carbs.) Construction is in progress ...

[viiking]

I'm a tinkerer since being a small child. I used to pull old mechanical clocks apart when I was 2 or 3 to see how that little spring used to move to and fro so I understand why you want to pull apart your solenoid. Mind you I never became a watchmaker and did have lots of broken things around me as I was growing up. Now I have a broken Beetle and being in my late '60's I'm still tinkering, but am determined to get it back to normal.

However I did not touch the solenoid when overhauling my starter. I applied power and it moved forward and back OK and given it was well sealed I did not think it would have too much crud inside. Given the relatively "few" times it operates, it should last a fair bit.

However, I did look at it by removing the posts on the opposite end to the bendix drive connection and peeked inside. I did not touch the other end. I had the original Bosch solenoid and the bendix drive end just had a metal plate which looked like it was attached to the body internally. Maybe yours is different.

By the way, you can buy a new Bendix drive if you cannot get it fixed or if the Bendix unit is damaged. Sometimes bad starter operation can be tracked down to the Bendix not operating properly due to wear internally, which cannot be pulled down and reassembled by us mere mortals.