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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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My van sits about halfway between the two pictures that Busdaddy posted above and I have an Oreilly axle on one side at present. Sliding under and trying to move the axles in and out, it appears there is far less movement in the Oreilly axle than the stock one. Your extra 1 1/2" of height over mine could be maxing out the extension of the axle. Reminds me that I need to get my old axle rebuilt and back on before the Oreilly axle leaves me stranded. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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tkgeorge_99 wrote: |
Ok, I agree. My bus is lifted a bit higher than I realized. Its okay, I like the look but now I just gotta find a cv joint and axle that works. So I will take my old stock axles and order a set of 944's. I'll order the part # listed for 944's by several vangon sites. I figure, my late bay axles are probably exactly the same as the vanagon ones. Thanks for help. |
You’re just getting the joints, correct? Your Bay axles are the same as the Vanagon in the length/depth of the splines where the joint goes, but the overall length is different. A Bay with a manual transmission will have axles around 18 3/4 inches end to end. If you don’t have any side play in the installed axle with the new 944 joints from the axle being too short, you could try a set of 19 1/4 off road racing axles designed for 3x3 trailing arms. Empi’s version is #16-2206. The splines are very long, and you could shorten the axle, and cut a new circle clip groove if they were too long. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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I needed to do some work on my van today so I jacked the side with the Oreilly axle on it up so that I had about the same amount of tire showing as your picture shows.
At that point even though the tire was still on the ground and the torsion arm was not resting on its stop there was zero endplay in the axle shaft, meaning the axle assembly is too short and the CV's are seeing undo stress. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7537 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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Some really good info here!
Nice work, gentlemen.
A simple end-play back-and-forth test will tell our OP all he needs to know about the situation.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7537 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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Just one more garbage afromarket part to watch out for!
Without these forums, we would all just be falling victim like ducks in a row..
Axles too short! Sweet Jesus!
What will they pull next?!?? _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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When ever you’re ready to swap your 944 joints, measure the overall length of the axles you currently have. I realize your springplate is not bottomed out on it’s stop, but the aftermarket joint may not be able to pivot far enough, and is in a bind. The axle may be the proper length, it just may have a lot of pressure on it not allowing it to move. This is a common thing with off-road buggies. Make sure you block the front wheels, then try jacking up one rear wheel to level the axle some, and see if you have any endplay. There’s an ad in the classifieds for OEM Bus 18 3/4 axles for $50 shipped for a pair. I’d get a set of them, and build another set of axles with your new joints when you get them, and do a simple swap. That way you would have Lobro joints, and an OEM axle that should last you the rest of your life with the Bus.
Clatter wrote: |
Without these forums, we would all just be falling victim like ducks in a row... |
There were an awful lot of people with knowledge I needed when I got the car in my avatar in 1989, but they chose not to share. Life would have been a lot easier with an information source such as the samba in 1989. |
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XXX/Rx/RnR Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2008 Posts: 405 Location: valley of the sun
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:28 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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I have an automatic trans in my bus. Both axles are the same length. Drivers side a little long and other side a little short, but work just fine. Bout a inch and a half diff in stock length. 930's get ya 27 degrees. 2 1/2" lift u need all of it. Same set of cv's 15 years running now. _________________ 78' westy, 2.4 195hp ecotec, audi turbo a/t, a\c, 2 1/2" lift spindles, index rear, 930 cv's & axles, 225x65x17 BFGs ## 77' hardtop 2.0 T-4 duel 44 weber's, 225x50x17s ## 74' baha bug |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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XXX/Rx/RnR wrote: |
I have an automatic trans in my bus. Both axles are the same length. Drivers side a little long and other side a little short, but work just fine. Bout a inch and a half diff in stock length. 930's get ya 27 degrees. 2 1/2" lift u need all of it. Same set of cv's 15 years running now. |
I was going to suggest looking into 930 CV’s, but couldn’t find any easaly/commercially available stub axles that would accept a 108mm joint for a Bus. Did you have a custom flange welded to a stock stub, or does someone make a performance set that is easaly available like the Type 1 stubs? They definitely have a different spline, so you would then need a set of custom axles, or shorten some of the 19 1/4 off road ones. With a stock drivetrain, 930 joints would be the proverbial 2lb. sledge being used to drive the finish nail. |
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a1steaksauce Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010 Posts: 612
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tristessa Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004 Posts: 3992 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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[email protected] wrote: |
I was going to suggest looking into 930 CV’s, but couldn’t find any easaly/commercially available stub axles that would accept a 108mm joint for a Bus. Did you have a custom flange welded to a stock stub, or does someone make a performance set that is easaly available like the Type 1 stubs? They definitely have a different spline, so you would then need a set of custom axles, . |
Burley Motorsports can make (weld) Bus stub axles for 930 CV's if you send him a set of stock stubs to build from. They're not listed on his site but he said they'd be no problem when I emailed him last year. I'm looking into it so I can have 108MM CV's all around for consistency -- currently have 108mm inner CV's and 100mm outer CV's on stock Bus axles. Needed 108's to match Passat transaxle output flange; it's not ideal but gets the job done for now and has for a couple of years now.
The '90-'93 T4/Eurovan inner CV joint is 108MM like the 930 but 33 spline like Bus/Vanagon/944. Other than problem-solving like I used it for, there's no real advantage over stock, it's the same width as the stock 100MM and has about the same range of travel IIRC. '94-up Eurovan is 28 spline just like 930... |
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tkgeorge_99 Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2010 Posts: 149 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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So, I put in a set of 944's and 50 miles later, all seems to be okay. I'm still nervous but so far , so good. The axles move freely laterally with about an inch of play. Joints seem to be okay. |
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tkgeorge_99 Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2010 Posts: 149 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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For frame of reference and by way of a question... My rear fender lip is 25 1/4" from pavement. Can anyone measure their bus to give me a better idea of what "stock height" might be? Thanks my bus sits pretty level but if it's really 3" over stock, I may have to lower it to preserve CV joints. Curious to see how my bus compares to others. It's a 78, not sure if early and late bays have different heights. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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Wildthings wrote: |
At that point even though the tire was still on the ground and the torsion arm was not resting on its stop there was zero endplay in the axle shaft, meaning the axle assembly is too short and the CV's are seeing undo stress. |
Got new boots on my old CV's and got them reinstalled. The OEM setup is the exact same length as the O'reilly axle, but the O'reilly CVs get very tight when at an angle. The O'reilly CV had about 1000 miles on them when they got removed, and for the most part there was no load over those miles so the axles were running at a pretty good angle. Didn't have time to pull the O'reilley CV's down and see what things looked like wear wise. |
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tkgeorge_99 Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2010 Posts: 149 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 cv joints for 78 bus |
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So, 8k miles later, 944 cv joints are doing fine. Stinking rubber boots split but a bit of pipe wrap tape and more grease injected in will do for now. |
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